Monday, October 30, 2006

Autistic Teens Being Taught They Are "Recovered"

Thanks largely to the magic of YouTube, it's now possible to see what people mean when they claim that autistic children have "recovered" from autism. There are several videos with such children which can be found in YouTube. I'll post a couple here, without naming any names.





What do readers think? Obviously autistic teens are being taught essentially that it's bad to be autistic but they shouldn't worry about it because they are "recovered" now. Is this good, bad or indifferent, considering these teens are probably able to pass (with an unknown amount of effort)?

In a letter to BMJ, a psychiatrist named Sami Timimi provides an anecdotal account of autistic teens asking to be undiagnosed:

In my clinical practice I often come across children and adolescents who are labelled autistic. When I focus on their abilities I often find much about them that does not fit the autistic discourse. Once I reopen the question of diagnosis many adolescents ask me to officially "undiagnose" them, which their parents are usually very pleased about.


I can see why a teenager might not want the "autistic" label. And it's not surprising that most parents would be pleased, even though the child is the same child before and after the label is removed. But there's obviously something wrong with this, in a social sense.

160 comments:

  1. "But there's obviously something wrong with this, in a social sense."

    For sure. It's really disturbing as a matter of fact.

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  2. IMHO teens not wanting the autistic label is something they were taught from YOUNG.

    at mommy and daddys' knees. autistic=bad. Normal=good. Yeah, teenagers can come up with that on their own, too...but "they wouldn't do that to you if you weren't autistic" is pretty strong.

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  3. This is heartbreaking... & I am particularly disturbed that a psychiatrist would "undiagnose" someone with a complex developmental difference like autism. It's co-operating with the abusive social system rather than trying to change it... This is why we have tried to instill a sense of pride in our son of who he is, & help him identify the ways that that autism helps him, to balance the things that inconvenience him.

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  4. Hi Kassiane. Hey, did they ever try to undiagnose your Rett's on the basis that you can tumble really well? That'd be kind of silly, wouldn't it?

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  5. Is it bad of me that I need to get out the long-buried paper from a psychologist stating my son's diagnosis to remember the date of diagnosis? He's only 5. And absolutely nothing changed on that day aside from the fact that he is now labeled.

    The other day he was sitting in my lap and I said, "Gabriel! You're autistic!" in the same kind of tone I would use to say he's a big boy. He looked at me, smiled and said "Stickers!"

    I know that may not be the right approach
    to introducing him to his label, I'm no expert, but it's a heck of a lot better than keeping it hush-hush or even worse, saying it in disappointed or apologetic tones while you're right in front of him.

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  6. April said: He looked at me, smiled and said "Stickers!"

    Well, some labels are applied with adhesive, Stickers to some. Smart boy :-)

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  7. People would not earn the label "autistic" if there wasn't something seriously wrong with them. These people need help, not empathy.

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  8. I think there are alot of adults who did not have a label of AS when they were adolescents - because the label for AS was not available and some of them received other labels. Any shortcomings were perceived more along the lines of weakness of character so nobody wants to be considered that way. So lots of As adults have experience with trying to fit in.
    I think some adults look back and say if they had known they had known about AS it would have explained things and made it easier. However that may not necessarily be correct - especially considering the lack of understanding about it. I think this is what we see here and why some types of early intervention could lead to short term successes but long term emotional problems. I wonder what these kids will think if they are under stress and start exhibiting autistic behaviors again - will they feel depressed and compelled to hide that even more because they don't want to disappoint.
    LB

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  9. John Best will never lose the label of a sociopath. Not ever.

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  10. It's so strange how similar the mom's speech is and how similar the boys are and how autistic the boys still are and how in denial the moms are.

    What makes me sad is that these boys would be shredded alive if placed in a typical (from my experience) teen social situation, where the teens have no reason to accomodate the autistic traits and quirky behavior and speech of the boys.

    The moms have been taught that an autistic teen is something else than what their sons are. Perhaps the moms thought that their children would be less verbal and more dependent by the time they were teens, and so the way the boys ended up seems a miracle. But this is how these boys would have ended up anyway. That's obvious... the moms are so invested in their brands of "cure" that they must attribute the "cure" to ABA (in the first mom's case) and chelation, secretin and other "biomed" in the second mom's case.

    I got diagnosed at age 44 and I can pass for normal much better than these boys can, some of it is age. I don't have video of myself at their age, but I might have been similar. Point being, if someone too these kids to a doctor now without any comment on their previous diagnoses... they'd get dx'd as being on the spectrum by any competent doctor, in my opinion.

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  11. The problem is in the literature and concepts of autism in that it has always been primarily researched and concieved of as a childhood disorder and it seems it can't as a concept escape its path,

    The problems were right there in DSM III which did the most damage.

    What was ill understood then, and is not even fully appreciated today that autism is a different developmental trajectory and what was the case in childhood is not the same as in adulthood or any of the other Shakespearian seven ages.

    That is the same for any difference, it is the case with Dyslexia too, it is obvious, I can write now, and read, albeit not as well as some folk.

    Is there a cure for childhood or do most kids just grow out of it?

    Larry

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  12. Christschool says:

    I never received an autism diagnosis as a child, I received a "troubled" and "behavior" challenged unofficial diagnosis. I was held back in kindergarten because of my "behaviors". I received corporal punishment everyday,literally, until the 6th grade when I finally learned to protest it. My parents were advised in the 7th grade to put me in a private school where I could "learn" under a more structured environment. At the time, my parents were told that I was gifted and that I wasn't performing up to my "potential". I was later diagnosed with AS after my son was diagnosed ASD with Hyperlexia. However, I never was "cured". I fake normal everyday. My public personality has always been in conflict with my private personality. It wasn't until I entered boarding school that I learned to "fake it" due to severe hazing from the other students. I still suffer as a result of that hazing today. I no longer feel comfortable to be myself anymore. It's a constant and unrelenting anxiety issue for me. If you were to meet me today as a stranger, you would not be able to identify me as autistic, a result of my faking it ability (although I am not proud of this and feel and extreme sense of guilt). I struggle more with this than anything else in my life. I don't have an answer to this situation I find myself in and I don't know when it will resolve itself.

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  13. Anon; Is it better to be called a sociopath by liars and help children or to be a liar who harms children?

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  14. John - when you consider it acceptable to assume the identity of a 6 year old girl then I think its safe to say that you are disturbed.

    Get it through your head - nobody in this thread has harmed their child. The only person who is doing harm is you. My daughter is non verbal and yet you see fit to put words in her mouth? You who administer drugs meant for schizophrenic adults to your autistic child?

    Here's a piece of the puzzle John - the medication you use to knock out your son has side effects that cause muscle stiffness, like say, a leg that doesn't work. It can cause constipation. It can cause loss of eyesight and even cataracts, it can cause muscle twitches.

    You're a sorry excuse for a man John. Men don't hide behind children to make their points. Men don't need to threaten women. You're a lily-livered coward.

    One day John, you and I are going to meet. You don't like me? Fine. You disagree with me? Fine. You abuse my family? Not fine. If you want to see that as a threat, be my guest.

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  15. That's right, John. You're both a sociopath and a liar who harms children.

    That info about the drugs you give your child sheds some light on your claim that Sam used to "drag one leg". You've mentioned that as if it were a symptom of autism to drag one's leg. Man, how pathetic, negligent and reckless can you be, John?

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  16. So John, when should we expect your video on Youtube? I promise it will get plenty of traffic.

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  17. Dear Kev;
    I thought the Megan posting on AWARES was the actress. She didn't write like a six year old. You're way too self-centered thinking everything revolves around you.
    I'll tell you about Seroquel and I expect you'll use what I say out of context as usual. It was prescribed by a psychiatrist when Sam's behavior was so difficult that we were considering institutionalizing him. He's been off of it for about a year and a half now since I discovered how dangerous it was. I've since learned more about the doctor who prescribed it but the circumstances under which I gained that information prevent me from discussing it further.
    I wonder if you understand your own hypocrisy when you stated that you'd cure your daughter if she asked for your help. What if she can never express herself and wants that help right now? Do you think she enjoys being disabled?
    You'd be well within your rights to call me a child abuser if I hadn't won the battle with my less educated wife to begin chelation. You could even make me feel bad about it. However, all of your out of context crap only makes me laugh now. Sorry Kev, people who lie about mercury and chelation are the child abusers, not me.
    Gee Kev, if I was threatening you, Andrews would be calling the police himself for you. Maybe I'll check with him and see if he thinks I should do that. Nah, then I'd be a weasel like you.
    BTW, brilliant post Kev. Sorry I'm banned from commenting on your blog to offer kudos.

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  18. Joe; Claiming there has been no epidemic without the 75 year olds to back it up sounds like sociopathic sophistry to me. What will Amanda Baggs think of you liars if she ever gets cured and sees how you helped her miss a lot of enjoyment she could have had if she knew the whole truth? Sory Joe, autism sucks, it's not something to celebrate.

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  19. NM;
    I have no aspirations to be a youtube star.

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  20. If ForeSam is supposed to be an example of what being an NT is all about no wonder he is having trouble selling the "cure" here.

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  21. anonymous: "If ForeSam is supposed to be an example of what being an NT is all about no wonder he is having trouble selling the 'cure' here."

    LoL

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  22. "I thought the Megan posting on AWARES was the actress. She didn't write like a six year old. You're way too self-centered thinking everything revolves around you."

    I understand that to someone with absolutely no moral center, that sounds funny.

    To right-thinking people not trapped in the abyss of terminal stupidity it sounds like more from a grown man hiding behind a child. You are a weak, impotent man John. What you did and what you continue to do is disgusting. You involved a child in your own need to be angry with me.

    "I'll tell you about Seroquel and I expect you'll use what I say out of context as usual."

    Yeah context....quit mewling, grow up and take responsibility for once. I've noticed with you that everything is always someone else's fault....eli lily caused my sons autism, the evil neurodiverse trapped me in a fake conference, the psychiatrist told me to do it.

    "He's been off of it for about a year and a half now since I discovered how dangerous it was."

    What do you want? Congratulations? Because you're too damn idle to get off your arse and find out about something before your son has it, you end up giving him something that can account for all his physical symptoms and then a year or so after you take him off it those same symptoms disappear? Tell me something genius, is the Old Derry Road entirely populated with rednecks or is just you?

    "I've since learned more about the doctor who prescribed it but the circumstances under which I gained that information prevent me from discussing it further."

    Yeah, that sounds plausible. I guess someone will buy it.

    "I wonder if you understand your own hypocrisy when you stated that you'd cure your daughter if she asked for your help. What if she can never express herself and wants that help right now? Do you think she enjoys being disabled?"

    Having this debate with you is useless. You don't believe Amanda is capable of expressing her needs 'because she's mercury poisoned' so you exist in your own neat little trap of self deception and call it logic. Some people might pity you. I don't.

    "However, all of your out of context crap only makes me laugh now."

    Yeah you sounded like you were chortling away to yourself whilst typing that half baked crap about how dangerous the drug you used to use to 'knock out' your son was. I expect the tears of mirth were literally streaming from your eyes right?

    "Sorry Kev, people who lie about mercury and chelation are the child abusers, not me."

    That is you, you idiot.

    You crossed a line when you called my daughter names. You crossed another line when you put words in her mouth and assumed her identity. I won't ever forget it. I tend to hold a grudge against people who try to hurt my kids.

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  23. Kev, You're so delusional due to your anger that you just can't recall it was you who called your kid a monkey, not I. I'm not trying to hurt your kid mate. I'm trying to educate her thick-headed old man who rushed her to the hospital after she reacted to a vaccine. Same thing I did with my kid. Otherwise, he might've been a SIDS statistic.
    I know you have to jump at any chance to knock those of us who actually help our kids. That's your job as Kathleen's assistant at Neuroinsanity. Talking sense to you hasn't worked so I'll just make fun of you until you smarten up.
    Sam stopped dragging his leg while he was on Seroquel. You can read about his other gains on my blog.
    I could never be angry at you, Kev. You feign being aghast almost as well as Kathleen. You're comical.
    "I wonder if you understand your own hypocrisy when you stated that you'd cure your daughter if she asked for your help. What if she can never express herself and wants that help right now? Do you think she enjoys being disabled?"
    How come you sidestepped an answer to this, Kev? Would you like to talk to some parents I advised about how much their kids are improving? Autism is not something to celebrate, Kev. Just ask your daughter.

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  24. Hey John,
    Still holding up response to B12 injections as proof of mercury poisoning? Come to think of it, is there anything you can still hold up as proof? No, huh? I guess that leaves you to impersonate little girls.
    Happy Halloween

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  25. "Kev, You're so delusional due to your anger that you just can't recall it was you who called your kid a monkey, not I."

    Really? Remind me exactly where I said that. I remember telling you about the improvements in my daughters PC skills and you answering:

    "A monkey can be taught to use a computer but it can't learn how to play poker."

    When we discussed your cowardice elsewhere you added:

    "Get that address to me soon. My wife bought too many bananas so I'll send some for your daughter"

    Following up with:

    "Perhaps you can teach your daughter to swing from tree to tree"

    Not only do you abuse little girls in a cowardly manner, you then go on to try and wriggle out of it, in the same way you've attempted to wriggle out of your other responsibilities - an extrapolated version of sticking your fingers in your ears shouting 'la-la-la' and hoping it'll all go away.

    As I say, you are a pathetic joke of a man. You can't even assume responsibility for the things you said. You lack enough smarts and common sense to realise that whichever way you cut it, assuming the identity of a child in order to further the hostilities between you and I is just plain wrong. It doesn't surprise me in the least that you, who are unable to take any sort of responsibility for your own actions, can't understand that.

    "I know you have to jump at any chance to knock those of us who actually help our kids."

    Sorry John, this goes beyond our disagreement over vaccines/neurodiversity. You saw fit to assume my daughters name.

    "Talking sense to you hasn't worked so I'll just make fun of you until you smarten up."

    Once again for the stupid - 'make fun' of me, disagree with me, write blog entries about me. Whatever. I'm an adult. I don't give a crap what you think of me. Someone so stupid as to give his son medication for adult schizophrenics in order to 'knock him out' is nothing to worry about. But don't ever involve my daughter John.

    "I could never be angry at you, Kev. You feign being aghast almost as well as Kathleen."

    I understand that to someone with no morals, someone being aghast at the abuse of their children's identity from random psychos on the internet might look like feigning. Let me assure you its not. This has nothing to do with vaccines/autism whatsoever. Its to do with your sickness in thinking its OK to perpetuate your agenda by assuming the persona of my daughter.

    "How come you sidestepped an answer to this, Kev?"

    I didn't. I explained why debating the question to someone who doesn't have the sense to see his own circular logic is pointless.

    You see this whole thing as an extension of our disagreement about autism and vaccines. It isn't. Its about your abuse of my daughters identity.

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  26. 1. Actually, yes they have tried to undx my Rett because I can tumble. And the seizures. And the autism phenotypical features. Response to the former was to hand them a 22" tape measure and tell them to expect 3" extra, and show them my extra special kindergarten fine motor projects (damn cutting and pasting and coloring...) contrasted with the reading papers. Response to B was to point to a spike-wave complex and say "I'm Rett, not STUPID". As for C "You're JOKING. And unqualified to make that determination. I looked it up."

    2. Any doctor worth his oldest socks wouldn't use Seroquel as first line with a kid on the spectrum, they'd use Risperdal. Better tolerated, stronger on the 'desired effects' as opposed to being an expensive sleeping pill. They knew this BEFORE the approval. They've known this if they've thought about looking at a journal in about the last decade.

    3. There's this big book doctors have called the PDR. It has the prescribing info for ALL the drugs currently under patent & some that have gone generic. It's not that hard to ask to see the PI sheet, nor to ask about side effects, & docs kind of HAVE to tell you about things in the black box if one exists. Like TD and NMS and blood dyscrasias and liver failure above a certain percentage.

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  27. Kev;
    "I wonder if you understand your own hypocrisy when you stated that you'd cure your daughter if she asked for your help. What if she can never express herself and wants that help right now? Do you think she enjoys being disabled?"
    Now you've sidestepped this twice. It's not my logic. You're the one who said it on the radio.
    The original monkey comment was not a reflection on your daughter. It was a reflection on your own stupidity. If you were a little smarter, you would've seen that. Of course, you also have to try to twist everyone's words who disagrees with you. That time, it came back to bite you in the ass when you decided to call your kid a monkey.
    Were there any comments on AWARES that drew a connection between the name Megan Leitch and you? I think it was the actress, Kev. She was trying to use her celebrity status to make her point.
    Your point about Seroquel is pretty good. It helps demonstrate the incompetence of the doctors who poisoned your kid and mine. I never expected to have to become more knowledgeable about medicine than the doc's. That's why they get the big bucks. We used to be able to trust them and count on their knowledge to help our kids.

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  28. "Now you've sidestepped this twice. It's not my logic. You're the one who said it on the radio."

    I thought you claimed a high IQ?

    Let me spell it out for you genius.

    You don't believe autistic people can properly express their opinions. You've claimed as much regarding Amanda. Therefore you cannot expect my daughter to be able to respond. Any response they give you that you don't like you can write off as the ravings of a mercury poisoned individual. Its therefore pointless debating the point with someone who can't understand simple logic.

    I'm tired of indulging your arrant stupidity John. Your circular logic means that the only thing that supports your unfounded beliefs are your other unfounded beliefs.

    "The original monkey comment was not a reflection on your daughter. It was a reflection on your own stupidity. If you were a little smarter, you would've seen that."

    You can rewrite history as you see fit John so that it appears acceptable to your twisted mind. Your words are there for all to read. You are someone who enjoys laughing at autistic children. That makes you a lily-livered coward. That you are still trying to wriggle out of it rather than man up and admit what you said makes you someone with a streak of yellow a mile wide between your head and your arse. Its a wonder you can walk with so little spine.

    "Were there any comments on AWARES that drew a connection between the name Megan Leitch and you? I think it was the actress, Kev. She was trying to use her celebrity status to make her point."

    As I stated in my comment on your blog that you deleted, your IP address was associated with that user name you dolt. I'm not spouting off at you for my health. I'm doing it because you are the sick idiot who decided to usurp my daughters identity. You seriously need to step back and think about what you are doing.

    "Your point about Seroquel is pretty good. It helps demonstrate the incompetence of the doctors who poisoned your kid and mine."

    What it demonstrates is that you're a lazy researcher who just wanted to 'knock out' your son. I don't see Father of the Year calling on you any time soon.

    "I never expected to have to become more knowledgeable about medicine than the doc's. That's why they get the big bucks. We used to be able to trust them and count on their knowledge to help our kids."

    Don't worry John, you're not more knowledgeable than a Doctor. You're just a nasty little sicko with a big mouth and no scruples.

    How's your application to that NH developmental group going? I took the liberty of forwarding several of your quotes to W. Gordon Allen and Governer Lynch. They were appalled. I'll be forwarding this to them too, just in case they have any lingering doubts about your sanity.

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  29. Were there any comments on AWARES that drew a connection between the name Megan Leitch and you? I think it was the actress, Kev. She was trying to use her celebrity status to make her point.

    You're making a complete ass of yourself, John, as usual.

    Hey, whatever happened to "Lack of MB-12 is the root of the autism" ?

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  30. I think we are near the point where this Best character is just going to self-immolate from the heat of his own rage. Too bad, he probably had some good qualities, not that he ever showed any of them in the autism context.

    Just goes to show that the more invested people are in an idea, the harder they'll fight against acknowledging they were demonstrably wrong.

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  31. John,

    You're a lying, fradulent piece of garbage who thinks of his son not as a human being, but as a cross between a lottery ticket and a research subject. I'm sorry if your kid didn't live up to your expectations, but taking it out on everyone around you isn't the answer. Maybe accepting your child for who he is might be, but that's apparently way beyond your comprehension.

    Calling you a psychopath is insulting to psychopaths. You're not mentally disturbed, you're just a jerk.

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  32. Back to the original premise of the post - no way those kids in the videos aren't still autistic. To think otherwise is absurd. They'd be lost in real-life adolescent situations, and to think otherwise is horribly naive.

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  33. Kev;
    "Now you've sidestepped this twice. It's not my logic. You're the one who said it on the radio."

    I guess this makes three sidesteps. Did you take tap dancing lessons, Kev? Perhaps you should go into politics. I wasn't looking for a response from any autistic people, genius. I want to hear you defend the hypocrisy of your statement. Saying you'll cure your kid only if she asks makes a mockery of the insanity that you stand for. You stand for claiming that curing autism is killing the autistic person. Ergo genius, when you said you'd cure your kid, by your own mantra, you said you'd kill her. That's even worse than extrapolating my statement about playing poker by which you called your kid a monkey. Sane people can see how you put your foot in your mouth when you start trying to twist everyone's words who disagrees with you, Kev. Maybe you should stop being such a jackass and sane people wouldn't be able to use your own words to make fun of you.
    I'm not trying to wriggle out of anything, Kev. I'm just laughing at the lengths to which you will go to try to discredit sane parents who help suffering children. Now that you've said you will cure your daughter, you have to disagree with yourself about a cure killing the autistic person. That really makes you look like a nitwit, Kev. Of course, sane people already knew that anyone who thinks it's a good idea to allow children to suffer with autism is a nitwit.
    As for the NHDDC Kev, their goal is to see that every disabled person has whatever supports they need to achieve their potential. Celebrating brain damage instead of trying to cure it is diametrically opposed to that goal. That means that the NHDDC must be opposed to anything and everything that Neurodiversity stands for. Their goal is not to allow children to suffer as you and your psychopathic associates rant about. So, if they pay attention to you or any other Neurodiverse nitwit, it will say a lot about them. It won't reflect poorly on me or any other sane person who knows that you and your ilk are hazardous to children's health and well being.
    With that Kev, you can take whatever else you have to say and shove it.

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  34. Anonimouse;
    Anonymous simpletons who let their kids rot instead of helping them don't bug me. Have an idea!

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  35. Laurentius,

    "The problem is in the literature and concepts of autism in that it has always been primarily researched and concieved of as a childhood disorder and it seems it can't as a concept escape its path"

    That's mainly because it begins in childhood. If it's discovered later then it's a milder form of autism like Aspergers.

    All,

    'Labels' like autism should only be used for people/children with the condition. If it is abused then a false perception of autism will be cultivated which inevitably will make life harder for the true autistics.

    'Labels' in general should be avoided wherever possible as some form of prejudice always occurs. You don't have to look at disabilities to figure that one out. There are always two or more camps surrounding most things in life: fashion, music, sport etc.

    There seems to be a lot of people worried about autism carrying a stigma for their child or themselves when they are only mildly affected or not at all. Either change the label or suck it all up, you can't have it all ways. It's these sick selfish individuals that are denying the disability of true autistics. Many of these shysters have no more than personality disorders, trying to explain their twisted condition into autism. Sick!

    Parents want their kids to lead a fulfilling life and to do that they have to be able to communicate. It's no good turning up for work with a diaper full of shit!

    If biological intervention is a step closer to achieving independence, then so be it.

    If you deny an autistic person the choice of this, you're denying their human rights and deserve to be imprisoned, as it is no better than the atrocities dished out by fascist dictators.

    Get in the real world people. Stop crying and do something about it.

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  36. Actually, as you'd know if you'd been around enough physically disabled people, you'd know that incontinence does not prevent a person from holding a job. As for personality disorders, I assume this is another diagnosis-via-Internet thing.

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  37. Oh, and, also, it's not just the "mild" forms of autism that can be missed in childhood. A person could also receive a bunch of other diagnoses. Larry Bissonnette for instance had a diagnosis of childhood schizophrenia, and I don't know a lot of people who'd call him "mildly autistic".

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  38. *sighs*
    So autism has stigma and personality disorders dont? Where the hell have YOU been?

    I was autistic as a child. I was autistic as a teenager. I am autistic as an adult. The dx has been reconfirmed ad nauseum. A MecP2 mutation can be found in my cells, if not all of them, enough that it was stumbled upon accidentally. That ain't PD, folks.

    Just because someone can communicate in some form doesn't mean they aren't autistic (there are 3 domains listed in the official criteria. There should be at least 1 or 2 more). Just because you don't like what they say doesn't mean you should play internet shrink.

    And hiding behind "anonymous" to do so is the mark of a coward.

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  39. Anonymous,

    That's mainly because it begins in childhood. If it's discovered later then it's a milder form of autism like Aspergers.

    That's not true. There's no evidence that adult autistics were any less autistic in childhood than children currently being diagnosed. Heck, Fragile-X can be diagnosed at the age of 80. It happens. Autism is more "missable" than you think.

    'Labels' like autism should only be used for people/children with the condition. If it is abused then a false perception of autism will be cultivated which inevitably will make life harder for the true autistics.

    Do you have any evidence that non-autistics are being labeled autistic? You should be able to back up an acusation of this nature.

    'Labels' in general should be avoided wherever possible as some form of prejudice always occurs. You don't have to look at disabilities to figure that one out. There are always two or more camps surrounding most things in life: fashion, music, sport etc.

    Prejudice is what should be avoided, not labels.

    There seems to be a lot of people worried about autism carrying a stigma for their child or themselves when they are only mildly affected or not at all.

    This is a falsehood, clearly.

    Either change the label or suck it all up, you can't have it all ways.

    What does this even mean?

    It's these sick selfish individuals that are denying the disability of true autistics.

    Gosh, another dude who thinks they can dictate who the "true" autistics are and who aren't.

    I guess the children with Asperger lables are not "true" autistics, right? (Except when they do biomed, then that's fine).

    Many of these shysters have no more than personality disorders, trying to explain their twisted condition into autism. Sick!

    Again, if you have evidence to back up this acusation, please show it to us. This is a slanderous statement you're making.

    Parents want their kids to lead a fulfilling life and to do that they have to be able to communicate. It's no good turning up for work with a diaper full of shit!

    That made no sense. What does toilet training have to do with communication? BTW, my son does not speak, at 5, but we have successfully toilet trained him this year.

    If biological intervention is a step closer to achieving independence, then so be it.

    Any evidence that biomed is useful in this regard? Any evidence at all?

    If you deny an autistic person the choice of this, you're denying their human rights and deserve to be imprisoned, as it is no better than the atrocities dished out by fascist dictators.

    Who's preventing/denying what where? Are you saying that skepticism about the effectiveness of biomed should never be expressed?

    Get in the real world people. Stop crying and do something about it.

    Evidently, you should be directing that message at a mirror.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Larry Bissonnette for instance had a diagnosis of childhood schizophrenia, and I don't know a lot of people who'd call him "mildly autistic".

    Another example is Temple Grandin who I believe had a diagnosis of brain damage. Temple Granding could be called "mildly" autistic, but I'd challenge Anonymous to state that Temple Grandin is not autistic. Challenge made, Anonymous.

    ReplyDelete
  41. *Sigh*
    Oh Kassiane, you're so beautiful. It's such a shame you're so ugly on the inside.
    Why do you have a bag advertising "I am autistic" instead of "I have Rett's Sydrome".
    Do you get more attention when you say you're autistic?

    ReplyDelete
  42. Joseph,

    Fragile X is not autism. It's Fragile X that's why it's called Fragile X.

    Your not getting it. If it's missable then it's mild, chances are you'd be better off without the 'label'

    "Do you have any evidence that non-autistics are being labeled autistic? You should be able to back up an acusation of this nature."

    Some neurodiverse blogs.

    "Prejudice is what should be avoided, not labels."

    *Yawn* Yes, that is quite obvious. Have you been out lately?

    "This is a falsehood, clearly."

    I think you'll find the reaction to 'autism speaks' video a good testimonial for that statement. "My childs autistic and doesn't do that blah blah.."

    "What does this even mean?"
    It means you're either autistic or you're not.

    "I guess the children with Asperger lables are not "true" autistics, right? (Except when they do biomed, then that's fine)."

    I didn't say they weren't.

    "Again, if you have evidence to back up this acusation, please show it to us. This is a slanderous statement you're making."

    Some neurodiverse blogs.

    "That made no sense. What does toilet training have to do with communication? BTW, my son does not speak, at 5, but we have successfully toilet trained him this year."

    It's social acceptability. Glad to hear it about the toilet training. Some autistics may be in a diaper well beyond 5.

    "Any evidence that biomed is useful in this regard? Any evidence at all?"

    Apparantly. It depends on how hard and where you look. You're not going to find it on Mr Leitch's sites, are you.

    "Who's preventing/denying what where? Are you saying that skepticism about the effectiveness of biomed should never be expressed?"

    The persons discrediting/slandering scientists who are trying to uncover the truth and help cure autism. Why anyone would want to do that puzzles me. There failure will be evident if the number of autistics remains the same. But if their treatment is not tried/allowed to be tried their success will never be known. I find that a little worrying. What's the big deal here?

    "Evidently, you should be directing that message at a mirror."

    What does that mean?

    ReplyDelete
  43. Kassianne,

    Did they find the personality disorder mutation too? Get over yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Kev,
    Quit whining you pathetic excuse for a father. If you're so desperate to celebrate autism, then spare us the details, and save yourself the futility of convincing responsible parents of "the joy of autism". Save us the hassle of hearing how disgusting it is for someone to impersonate your kid.
    You don't know the first thing about raising children, autistic or otherwise.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Joseph,

    "Another example is Temple Grandin who I believe had a diagnosis of brain damage. Temple Granding could be called "mildly" autistic, but I'd challenge Anonymous to state that Temple Grandin is not autistic. Challenge made, Anonymous."

    I'm sure Temple Grandin wouldn't want to be 'labelled' in some sort of macho challange. Show a little respect. This is my whole point.

    I challenge you to pistols at dawn.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Just as an FYI, Anonymous, having any particular gene does not preclude a person from being autistic. For example, it is well known that autism is common among individuals with Down's Syndrome. You'd be rather ignorant to deny this.

    So is Temple Grandin autistic or not? Maybe she just has a personality disorder? Come on. You claim to be able to tell if someone is autistic or not over the internet.

    If it's missable then it's mild,

    What part of "this is obviously false (with examples)" did you not get?

    Also, what about some "neurodiverse blogs" makes you able to undiagnose over the internet? Pray tell.

    As to evidence of the effectiveness of biomed, I'm not talking about anecdotes, claims of recovery rates or even case reports. I'm talking about controlled trials. And lo and behold, whenever a biomed treatment that is supposedly very good is put through a controlled trial, it turns out it's just as good (or worse) than placebo.

    You shouldn't worry about these treatments not being looked into. Even when ethical concerns are raised, such as with chelation, trials are still done. We'll see what they turn up.

    ReplyDelete
  47. anonymous,

    Quit hiding. who are you? I have my picture up, you can at least put up a NAME. Only cowards insult people behind 'anonymous'.

    Google genotype and phenotype. Rett genotype. Autistic phenotype. Not many people lookin at the telomeres of my MecP2 gene, but it's a good thing to know. Cues me in to certain health Things that might come up later, or that already have. You can google those too, since you're being an asshat and a coward.

    As for the CARDS, one of which says 'I'm autistic', let's play "critical thinking skills". What is a more recognizable word, 'autism', or 'Rett syndrome'? The former gets me the help I need, while the latter, 99% of the time people say "you mean tourettes?" Advocacy is about getting what you need. Long drawn out explanations about DNA, genotypes, phenotypes, mosaicism, X inactivation, those aren't the way to go for that.

    Are you the same person who has their panties in a wad about QBE?

    Happy googling.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Did Joseph really say prejudice should be avoided? He must have missed the last Ku Klux Klan meeting. I wonder if he has any more racist remarks to insult my stepsons.
    How many times has Joseph called parents liars by saying "anecdotal evidence". He keeps throwing up dumb chelation studies that didn't even use ALA and only lasted a month or two. Even someone like Kev would know chelation doesn't usually work that quickly.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Joseph,
    I'm not the anon who callenged you to pisols at dawn, but I have to point out there are no "ethical concerns" regarding chelation. It has been safely practiced for decades.
    If you bothered yourself to do a little research on this treatment you would know this.
    I know Jim Adams is currently doing a DBCS of the eficacy of chelation.
    We'll have to wait and see "what they turn up".

    ReplyDelete
  50. Kassiane said,

    "Quit hiding. who are you? I have my picture up, you can at least put up a NAME. Only cowards insult people behind 'anonymous'"

    You have your picture up because you're vane.
    As for,
    "Only cowards insult people behind 'anonymous'"
    Why don't you go on Fore sam's blog and say the same thing to the anonymous cowards there?

    ReplyDelete
  51. "Are you the same person who has their panties in a wad about QBE?"

    LoL.

    ReplyDelete
  52. "Quit hiding. who are you?"

    That's for me to know and for you to guess.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Anonymous said...
    "*Sigh*
    Oh Kassiane, you're so beautiful. It's such a shame you're so ugly on the inside.
    Why do you have a bag advertising "I am autistic" instead of "I have Rett's Sydrome".
    Do you get more attention when you say you're autistic? "

    She's one of those exhibitionists who can never get enough attention. That's why she dances around in her leotard smiling like Olga Korbut for the crowd.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anons: Pick a name. It's easy. Just choose "Other" when you post.

    ReplyDelete
  55. He keeps throwing up dumb chelation studies that didn't even use ALA and only lasted a month or two.

    If you're referring to the studies on children who actually had high lead levels, those trials lasted 6-13 months it looks like.

    But what you said is a good illustration of pseudo-science. That is, make it so that it's impossible to falsify a claim. If the trial lasts 2 years, you'll say 3 are needed, and so on.

    Apparently Neubrander is doing this with MB-12 now. Previously MB-12 was sold as a very fast acting biomed treatment, with some parents stating so. Now he's claiming you must be at it for years.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Joe; I think you could pick a timeframe that's reasonable but, without ALA, it's not going to get the mercury out of the brain.
    When's the next cross burning?

    ReplyDelete
  57. "I guess this makes three sidesteps. Did you take tap dancing lessons, Kev? Perhaps you should go into politics. I wasn't looking for a response from any autistic people, genius. I want to hear you defend the hypocrisy of your statement."

    Is it possible that someone could be so incredibly thick and still be able to walk and talk at the same time? Go back, read carefully. Take as much time as you need.

    "You stand for claiming that curing autism is killing the autistic person."

    I do? Want to point out to me where I said that?

    "Ergo genius, when you said you'd cure your kid, by your own mantra, you said you'd kill her."

    I guess to a coward who hides behind little girls and bleats about everything in his life being someone elses fault that sounds good. To people not trapped in the abyss of stupidity, it sounds much like you - a joke.

    "As for the NHDDC Kev, their goal is to see that every disabled person has whatever supports they need to achieve their potential. Celebrating brain damage instead of trying to cure it is diametrically opposed to that goal. That means that the NHDDC must be opposed to anything and everything that Neurodiversity stands for."

    John, you couldn't reason your way out of a wet paper bag could you? Everything is about you isn't it? Because you see something in a certain way you think everyone else does. Here's another clue to you John - ever notice when you post one of your blog threads on EoH absolutely no-one ever comments? They think you're a twisted little idiot too John.

    So, if they pay attention to you or any other Neurodiverse nitwit, it will say a lot about them. It won't reflect poorly on me

    Here we go again, more patented bleating about how its not you, its someone else. What a pathetic oxygen thief you are.

    "With that Kev, you can take whatever else you have to say and shove it."

    I can hear your bottom lip trembling from here. Your kids need a man as a father John, not a spineless simpleton who blames everything on other people. Grow up, stop putting yourself first and stop using children to hide behind.

    ReplyDelete
  58. I have to point out there are no "ethical concerns" regarding chelation.

    Redirecting that here.

    ReplyDelete
  59. I think you could pick a timeframe that's reasonable but, without ALA, it's not going to get the mercury out of the brain.

    I recall there's an unsuccessful study with ALA and Vitamin C attempting to chelate mercury from the brain and kidneys. Does anyone have a reference to that?

    ReplyDelete
  60. To get back to the original question. Both of those boys look autistic to me. They remind me of about 2/3rds of the gamer/geeks that I used to hang out with in college and after. After all, my son is quite popular with the neighbourhood children when they get stuck in a videogame level that they cannot complete. What I see is that regardless of treatments that the parents initially chose , they have slowly and unavoidably started to work with who their child really is inside. They are adapting to their son's reality and calling it recovery. I wonder how they will handle their child's first gamer convention or if they suddenly decide to become furries, all valid subculture communities that welcome people with iffy communication skills.
    And all the anonymous' out there, pick a name already. Talk about iffy communication skills.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Joseph would rather have anyone who wishes to comment as anonymous do so as such, rather than not comment at all.
    Otherwise he could/would change his blog not to allow anonymous comments.

    ReplyDelete
  62. If there was a way to disallow the "Anonymous" radio button without disallowing the "Other" radio button, I'd choose that. But it doesn't look like that's provided as a option by Blogger. I don't require logging in to Blogger for the convenience of the commenters. Word verification is enabled because I'd get a lot of spam otherwise.

    ReplyDelete
  63. I don't care if you are identifying yourself or not. Just I prefer when people use an identifier so I can respond to the appropriate commentator. When you have multiple people coming on as anonymous then it muddies the communication. I find that it is just bad communication and rude. If you want to use the anonymous button then add an identifier in the text as LB did. It is not anonymous itself, it is multiple anonymous posters with no identifiers.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Kevin;
    "Here's another clue to you John - ever notice when you post one of your blog threads on EoH absolutely no-one ever comments? They think you're a twisted little idiot too John."
    The reason nobody comments is because they know that Neurodiverse psychopaths monitor the list and they don't want their quotes taken out of context by those nitwits to use against them.
    I get plenty of comments via Email that you don't see, simpleton.
    I looked at your blog, and for the last 8 posts, you had 4, 39, 40, 18, 18, 21, 8, and 6 comments. My last 8 posts had 20, 23, 106, 79, 136, 42, 37, and 47 comments. That's 336 more comments than you, sonny. I'd say that makes you much more of a twisted little idiot than me. Also, nobody on my blog is saying: "Nyaa, nyaa, nyaa, nyaa, I"m gonna tell on you" like Andrews is saying in your Neuroinsanity land.
    Grow up, Kev. Then maybe you can explain your hypocritical statement about curing your daughter. Did Kathleen slap you for saying such a terrible thing? I'll just bet she was oh, so aghast.

    ReplyDelete
  65. ms clark,
    "I got diagnosed at age 44 and I can pass for normal much better than these boys can, some of it is age. I don't have video of myself at their age, but I might have been similar. Point being, if someone too these kids to a doctor now without any comment on their previous diagnoses... they'd get dx'd as being on the spectrum by any competent doctor, in my opinion".

    Why do you criticize these boys for passing for normal when you boast you can "pass for normal much better than these boys can"?
    Why do YOU attempt to "pass for normal"?

    Did you "pass for" autistic when you "got diagnosed at the age of 44".

    ReplyDelete
  66. Kev Leitch said;

    "Someone so stupid as to give his son medication for adult schizophrenics in order to 'knock him out' is nothing to worry about."

    "What it demonstrates is that you're a lazy researcher who just wanted to 'knock out' your son."

    Didn't you use a steroid to knock out your daughter?

    From Left Brain/Right Brain, Kevin Leitch said:

    “8.30pm Megan finally drops after we give her some Valergan (this is a drug- no we’re not happy about drugging our daughter either but what the hell do you want us to do?).“

    Animouse said;

    "John,
    You're a lying, fradulent piece of garbage who thinks of his son not as a human being, but as a cross between a lottery ticket and a research subject.
    "

    Wrong Animouse! The day we all took our kids into the pediatrician's office for their vaccines loaded with a known neurotoxin that has NEVER been tested for safety, was the day we treated them like a lottery ticket or a research project.

    ReplyDelete
  67. I don't think anyone is criticizing these boys - it is more like being very concerned about them being compelled to pass for normal. I think being able to manuever in the NT world is a pretty good thing to learn. I consider it like showing my son a map of the NT world. I was severely bullied in school because I was pretty naive and unaware. I have no intention of not providing information for my son but he can also know that he does not have to pass for normal to be considered successful. A map is a tool not a measure of a person. The problem is not people showing someone how to use social skills for their own benefit but attaching their worth to their ability to do that.


    LB

    ReplyDelete
  68. "The reason nobody comments is because they know that Neurodiverse psychopaths monitor the list and they don't want their quotes taken out of context by those nitwits to use against them."

    Yeah, I'm sure that's why. Why don't you revisit some of the old threads on Onibasu to see what your 'friends' think of you? They might be wrong about mercury John but they recognise an obnoxious, cowardly evolutionary throwback when they see one.

    See John, people on EoH regularly discuss neurodiversity - there's a thread just this week I see. However, whenever you start one, its dead. They know you're a nutter. Why do you think you keep getting thrown off autism related groups?

    "I looked at your blog, and for the last 8 posts, you had 4, 39, 40, 18, 18, 21, 8, and 6 comments. My last 8 posts had 20, 23, 106, 79, 136, 42, 37, and 47 comments. That's 336 more comments than you, sonny."

    More bottom lip trembling John? I'm not talking about your blog where you and your fellow dregs of society hang out and pat each other on the places where your spines are supposed to be, I'm talking about EoH. And as for 'I get plenty of comments via Email that you don't see, simpleton.' - that made me laugh :D

    Grow up, Kev. Then maybe you can explain your hypocritical statement about curing your daughter. Did Kathleen slap you for saying such a terrible thing? I'll just bet she was oh, so aghast.

    Managed to find that quote of me saying curing was the same thing as murder yet? No? Then stop talking out of your arse.

    KC - yes, we did. The difference being I don't pretend I never did and attack people who do. I acknowledge we made a bad choice. John is a coward who bleats about everything being someone else's fault and when confronted with the truth of his statements cries about 'context'. This is because he's rotting in the abyss of stupidity.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Kev;
    The question was not whether I would go digging through the internet like a rodent to find a quote. The question was about your hypocrisy and whether Kathleen "slapped" you.
    The only groups I've been thrown out of were those run by Neuroknuckleheads like yourself. The cowards, like yourself, threw me out because they could not defend their deranged opinions when facing the truth.
    I've had all sorts of comments privately from EOHarm with people thanking me for giving them a good laugh at your expense, Kev. If they did this publicly for the rodents who infest the group to see (That's you, Kev), they would have their comments plastered on your idiotic blogs and accused of being mean to autistic people. Of course, sane people know that this is crap since you and Kathleen are not on the spectrum but you do love to lie about anything and everything to further your deranged agenda. They don't want to give you fodder for your idiocy. I, however, will give you all the fodder you want so you can make yourself look more moronic with it.
    BTW dufus, the people at Wikipedia apologized to me for including my out of context comments under GR that one of you nitwits sent them. Sane people just keep laughing at you, Kev. There are no bottom lips trembling. Why don't you shut up now and learn how to become a decent father who helps his kid? She'll thank you for not letting her rot. GR stands ready to assist you if you come to your senses.

    ReplyDelete
  70. "I've had all sorts of comments privately from EOHarm with people thanking me for giving them a good laugh at your expense, Kev."

    I can vouch for that. I was one of those people who had a good laugh at your expense, Kev.

    ReplyDelete
  71. You're lying, John.

    ReplyDelete
  72. anonimouse,
    And how do you know this?

    ReplyDelete
  73. "The only groups I've been thrown out of were those run by Neuroknuckleheads like yourself."

    Yeah, such as AWARES last year, Autismweb.com earlier this year....and what about that group Children with Autism who kicked you out after 10mins? All bastions of neurodiversity right?

    Face it John, you're aboute as well liked and respected as syphillis.

    "I've had all sorts of comments privately from EOHarm with people thanking me for giving them a good laugh at your expense, Kev."

    'course you have John ;o)

    "If they did this publicly for the rodents who infest the group to see (That's you, Kev), they would have their comments plastered on your idiotic blogs and accused of being mean to autistic people."

    You still don't get it do you? People talk about neurodiversity a lot of EoH, it very rarely gets quoted. People aren't afraid to talk about it. What they do seem reluctant to do is participate in a thread you start. That's because, as I say, you're a cowardly psycho.

    "BTW dufus, the people at Wikipedia apologized to me for including my out of context comments under GR that one of you nitwits sent them."

    Are you determined to embarras yourself? Wikipedia is edited by anybody and everybody. Nobody controls the content - that's the point of it you idiot. No one from Wikipedia apologised to you - why make up such a transparent lie? I strongly suggest you take a good hard look at the page in question. You're still there Johnny boy :o)

    "There are no bottom lips trembling."

    Oh, I think there are ;o)

    Oh and Anonymous? Shhh, adults are talking. Well, and John.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Kev;
    Autism Web threw out Srinath too so I'm in good company. He's another educated person who agrees that you are a simpleton, Kev. Children with Autism is run by someone almost as dumb as you, Kev. Morons can start Yahoo groups if they want.
    :o) What is this stuff, Kev, some teenage girl communication system?
    I advise people to comment on my blog anonymously to protect their identities from you bunch of twerps. Anyone who agrees with what I say to you has their name plastered all over your blogs in a stupid attempt to discredit them. You have to resort to these tactics because you can not defend your position, bonehead.
    Has your daughter learned to type yet, Kev? I expect the first thing she'll want to say to you when she learns is "Why won't you help me, Dad?".
    Did you manage to put your slander in more than one place in Wikipedia? Calling me a liar is all I expect from you. Keep it up, Kev. Keep spreading your lies to make yourself look foolish. In the meantime, myself and other sane people will be helping our kids while you let your's rot. What an idiot!

    ReplyDelete
  75. About your quotes, John, the only 'context' you were ever able to explain was that 'dumb broad' was an insult directed to Kathleen only. Of course, those have not been your only comments about women. You can complain about 'context' all you want, but the fact is that no 'context' (real or made up) can explain away the vast majority of what you've said.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Joseph, you're so profound...

    ReplyDelete
  77. Joe; I wouldn't want to explain away anything I've said. When's your next Ku Klux Klan meeting?

    ReplyDelete
  78. Andrews,
    Here's a geat quote that sets you apart from others, in more ways than one.

    "I seem to have set a trend. I was the first of four autistic people to do any of the autism programmes, and it was looking like I’d be one of three that were postgrads… however, glad that we can say that the four of us went into postgrad study

    We are just so da-a-amn good!"

    It's a good job you think you're so da-a-mn good, cause no-one else does.

    ReplyDelete
  79. What do you hope to accomplish with that childish bait of yours, John?

    ReplyDelete
  80. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Rescue

    Kevin: "Wikipedia is edited by anybody and everybody. Nobody controls the content - that's the point of it you idiot. No one from Wikipedia apologised to you - why make up such a transparent lie? I strongly suggest you take a good hard look at the page in question. You're still there Johnny boy :o)"

    I looked. You're right. He is.

    Anonymous imbecile: "It's a good job you think you're so da-a-mn good, cause no-one else does."

    Wrong, imbecile. Quite a number of people do. Lots in academic circles do (no, I don't have to give you names, but here's one: Professor Timo Järvilehto, University of Oulu). It's obvious that nobody thinks you're any good... you daren't even give your bloody name, you dumb wuss.

    Joseph: "What do you hope to accomplish with that childish bait of yours, John?"

    He's obvious, isn't he?!

    Imbecile Best: "GR stands ready to assist you if you come to your senses."

    Nah. It stands ready to get the piss ripped out of every single principle it has. Assuming we can find any principles... JBJr certainly has none.

    The imbecile: "Andrews,
    Here's a geat quote that sets you apart from others, in more ways than one."

    Learn to spell, dipshit.

    Until then, shut the fuck up, John.

    ReplyDelete
  81. Kev L,

    You're pathetic. You whine on about acceptance. I believe it's you who can't come to terms with the thought of the government damaging your child. It takes guts and courage to face that kev. You would rather ignore it, that way you don't have to face it. Do you think everything the government touts is safe? Even if the government came knocking at your door with a confession, you'd turn them away with the 'Where's the evidence routine'.

    I honestly believe your sham of neurodiversity is a way of convincing yourself that your daughter wasn't damaged by the government and everything is going to be OK.

    It's all going to fall in on you kev.

    ReplyDelete
  82. "The imbecile: "Andrews,
    Here's a geat quote that sets you apart from others, in more ways than one."

    That comment was made by "anonymous".

    Learn to read, dipshit.

    Until then, shut the fuck up, David.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Andrews; "Until then, shut the fuck up, John." Is that what you learned from Oulu U.? When your pending education is complete, you may learn other ways to insult people.
    MED=Mentally Deficient

    ReplyDelete
  84. David

    "Professor Timo Järvilehto, University of Oulu"

    Would that be 'pending' professor...

    How crass.

    Does he idolize you? I bet your his tea boy!

    ReplyDelete
  85. david n. andrews said,

    "No one from Wikipedia apologised to you - why make up such a transparent lie? I strongly suggest you take a good hard look at the page in question. You're still there Johnny boy :o)"

    I looked. You're right. He is."

    There was more than one reference to John Best, dipshit.

    ReplyDelete
  86. An arsehole: "There was more than one reference to John Best, dipshit."

    So what? The fact is that he's still referred to for his attacks.

    Probably the same arsehole: "David
    'Professor Timo Järvilehto, University of Oulu'
    Would that be 'pending' professor...
    How crass.
    Does he idolize you? I bet your his tea boy!"

    Evidently some fucking idiot there thinking he's smart. This is Timo: http://cc.oulu.fi/~tjarvile/indexe.htm

    Nothing 'pending' about either him or me, dumbarse. You, on the other hand, are obviously pending the development of a brain.

    And, no... not his teaboy; I was the only student he invited to lecture to the intermediate psychology students (those studying at final year BA level).

    Oh, and talking about 'crass'... that would be you.

    Just a thought: If this is JBJr being a fuckwit (as usual), then there's a high probability that he's jealous because he didn't in fact get a BA in psychology himself, and nor did he get his claimed MPA in public admin. If he had actually got these degrees, he wouldn't need to berate me at all. There's something seriously amiss with JBJr's claims, I think - he isn't behaving like someone who has them. If it isn't JBJr, then the person is clearly JAOOJBJFL. Who reckons I might be onto something here?

    And under his own name: "Andrews; "Until then, shut the fuck up, John." Is that what you learned from Oulu U.? When your pending education is complete, you may learn other ways to insult people.
    MED=Mentally Deficient"

    John, the only 'pending' issue now is whether to go on for the PhD. Nothing else. If you were anything like educated yourself, would you really have to get your jollies by insulting autistics? I mean, really... Anyways, at least I have an education... can't see anything resembling educated in your behaviour, John. Nobody can.

    Anonymous arsewipe: "That comment was made by 'anonymous.
    Learn to read, dipshit.
    Until then, shut the fuck up, David."

    How come all these 'anonymous' posters have the same style as JBJr?

    Joseph, can you enlighten us?

    Joseph: "What do you hope to accomplish with that childish bait of yours, John?"

    That he's an insecure, ignorant arsehole with no bottle to do anything other than to try to victimise people who disagree with his insane drivel? Who knows? He probably doesn't.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Oh, and this piece of 'class' from JBJr: "MED=Mentally Deficient"

    So MPA=Minging Piss Artist? Mad Pathetic Arsehole? Mercury-Pissing Arsewipe? Mercury-Possessed 'Alykääpiö'?

    Shit, I could have some fun with those... LOL

    ReplyDelete
  88. david n. andrews said;

    "Blah blah blah dipshit, blah blah blah arsehole, blah blah dumbarse, blah blah JAOOJBJFL, blah blah blah, insane drivel?"

    ReplyDelete
  89. Sanity Pending;
    "And, no... not his teaboy; I was the only student he invited to lecture to the intermediate psychology students"
    That was the abnormal psych. class where you served as an example of a wacko.
    Aqualung said:" If you were anything like educated yourself, would you really have to get your jollies by insulting autistics?"
    You're not autistic, Dave. Stop trying to confuse the issue and admit that you're just a goofy jerk who diagnosed himself to have an excuse for staying in school for 40 years.
    Aqualung, an education just gives you a base to learn other useful stuff when you graduate. You'll learn this when your degree stops pending and you go out into the real world. If you ever had a real job, you would have learned this by now.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Mentally Deficient; Now that we've determined what MeD stands for, you can go ahead and drop the "Pending". I deem you qualified.

    ReplyDelete
  91. John the imbecilic parent of Sam: "You're not autistic, Dave."

    Actually, it's in my medical records that I am.

    You are one hellova a stupid sod, aren't you?

    Time you got a job, man. Stop loafing about and actually get on with being a parent, eh?

    If you are spending this much time on your computer, you're robbing your kid of a parent.

    If you loved him as much as you claim, why are you on here being a bloody idiot for the world to see, instead of raising your kid?

    Ah, of course... you only love the lad whilst ever he's a possible source of gambling capital, right?

    You're a loser, John... face up to it and have done.

    ReplyDelete
  92. JBJr: "If you ever had a real job, you would have learned this by now."

    Just finished one post as an assistant educational psychologist while I was on postgraduate training.

    You really have no life, John.

    That's so sad for someone supposedly happy with his life.

    ReplyDelete
  93. I read your comments on autism vox.
    Do you consider being an unpaid assistant a "real job"?
    Have you "just finished" this post, or did they "finish" you?

    ReplyDelete
  94. Mentally Deficient; Why aren't you with your kid, son? Oh yeah, that's right, your old lady threw you out. Well, the kid's better off without you around anyhow. Mine's in bed.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Ok, that's enough. I don't want to turn on moderation. Try to tone it down - everyone, and if possible let's get back on some coherent topic.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Thank you Joseph, that Andrews was very insulting. I'm just aghast at his behavior.

    ReplyDelete
  97. "Autism Web threw out Srinath too so I'm in good company. He's another educated person who agrees that you are a simpleton, Kev."

    Ah yes, srinath. The guy who calls autistic people 'fucking retards'. Yes, you are indeed in the sort of company I would expect.

    "Children with Autism is run by someone almost as dumb as you, Kev. Morons can start Yahoo groups if they want."

    Yeah, like I say - its always someone else right? One of these days you're going to have stop bleating about how everybody else is to blame and shoulder some responsibility. Children with Autism simpy recognised what most people do John - you're not safe around children.

    "Anyone who agrees with what I say to you has their name plastered all over your blogs in a stupid attempt to discredit them. You have to resort to these tactics because you can not defend your position, bonehead."

    Such as who John? Show me where I've done that - you're the only person who has that honour John. And whilst you're at it, don't forget to show me where I said cure was the same as murder. Also don't forget to show me where I called my daughter a monkey.

    And you call other people liars? Here's a clue for you, free of charge: making stuff up in your head doesn't make it true.

    "Did you manage to put your slander in more than one place in Wikipedia? Calling me a liar is all I expect from you. Keep it up, Kev. Keep spreading your lies to make yourself look foolish. In the meantime, myself and other sane people will be helping our kids while you let your's rot. What an idiot!"

    Slander John? What slander? If you point out to me where anything said about you isn't verifiable or true I'll remove it immediately.

    No John, the truth is that you don't like it on public display because it is true. You're like a slug with a bright light being shone on it. The salts coming soon John.

    ;o)

    ReplyDelete
  98. "I believe it's you who can't come to terms with the thought of the government damaging your child."

    Actually, a quick read of my blog would reveal that that's exactly what I did believe. I came to terms with it with great speed. Its always easy to blame someone else - just ask John :o)

    "It takes guts and courage to face that kev. You would rather ignore it, that way you don't have to face it."

    No it doesn't Anon,it takes belief rather than evidence. If you want to believe in that theory you go girl! I realised over time that the theory was utterly unsupported by science. It still isn't.

    "Do you think everything the government touts is safe?"

    No idea till I've seen the evidence.

    "I honestly believe your sham of neurodiversity is a way of convincing yourself that your daughter wasn't damaged by the government and everything is going to be OK."

    Well, neurodiversity isn't something I started, or anyone else you think of as 'neurodiverse' (whatever the hell that means).

    The two things are quite distinct as it happens. A belief in science based investigation doesn't require one to believe autism is an acceptable state of being and vice versa. It just so happens that a lot of vocal bloggers who are also 'neurodiverse' are critical thinkers also.

    I used to believe Anon. Then I looked at the actual science. Now I don't.

    "It's all going to fall in on you kev."

    Yeah - people have been saying that for the last 7 or 8 years. The reverse is true. All teh measures you lot employ are revealing that autism is not diminishing after thiomersal removal in the US and neither was their a corresponding 10% drop in autism with the documented 10% drop in MMR uptake since the '90's in the UK.

    Sorry Anon, this is not a subject in which belief serves you well. If you want to celebrate your beliefs I suggest your local church.

    ReplyDelete
  99. ForeSkin: "Thank you Joseph, that Andrews was very insulting. I'm just aghast at his behavior."

    Smarmy sod.

    You are the most insulting piece of garbage on the internet. Get real, John. You are the reason things get derailed. Your only purpose in life is to piss people off. So stick your hypocrisy up your arse and post something that isn't an insult.

    Given the title of this thread, and the issue being discussed, it's about time you 'recovered' yourself from your own 'rotting in the abyss' of stupidity.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Joseph, It's difficult to have a decent discussion here with Andrews putting up barriers to communication. Maybe you could counsel him privately.

    ReplyDelete
  101. As a mostly lurker, I have a few questions about this current thread. I was interested by the post and the clips as they bring up some of the long term issues that I will be dealing with with my son. The comment thread however deals with issues that I am already dealing with with my son.
    1) Do the same people always get into fatuous arguments about past issues on these threads?

    2) Does the bulk of this thread remind anyone else of a grade school play yard argument?

    3) Since so much of having an autism spectrum child revolves around teaching communication skills, shouldn't the adults have acquired some by now?

    Really folks- couldn't we get back to discussing the post?

    ReplyDelete
  102. Hawise,
    Maybe I have something productive to add here.
    I am an autistic adult but I work am a client of the same programs that are designed to work with autistic kids.
    I dont know so much about the parents except what I read on these blogs but I suspect that they are influenced by some of the same barriors that influence the "specialists".
    My wife and my mother have worked endlessly on trying to show the people who run these programs how their communication methods are subtle, nebulus, and even intentionally distracting and confusing. This is completly counter productive in helping me or any autistic.(or anyone else for that matter but especially us.)
    The problem seems to be how autism is veiwed.As long as it is seen as a disease that needs to be cured or a set of aborant behaviors that must be "fixed", communication skills will not be the focus or they will be presented as ideals that people claim wont be practical because there is an undercurrent of belief that only so much can really be accomlished when working with autistic people.

    ReplyDelete
  103. I agree that current autism programs are seriously remiss in abdicating the communication needs of autistics. Most autistics that I have encountered have developped their own coping skills in spite of the programs that exist. My main problem with ABA is that it sacrifices long-term communication skills in favor of short term gains that cannot be sustained. Of course, long term strategies do not have the immediate feel-good results but should be the primary goal.
    I have to teach my son to live to be ninety and not use 18 as a final goal. My son has many of the same behaviours as his father and grandfather, none of whom are diagnosed but seem to be doing alright as adults who were taught to function.
    Maybe I'm too practical but I would prefer that my son showed long term gains in functioning than to worry about whether he has "recovered" or not.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Im refering here to the parents I see as creating the confusion here and they are also more focused on cure and/or behavior fixing and are not (or dont claim to be) autistic. I think that the parents here who are autistic show more empathy and towards wanting to use good communication because they actually do believe in the potential for autistics to achieve more.

    ReplyDelete
  105. I think your goals are wise. I dont think ABA is practical at all.My goals as an adult are more about education and vocation. I admire many who have done better than I with those goals.
    My point was about why communication amongst the cure crowd is often seen as less valuable.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Thank you Joseph, that Andrews was very insulting. I'm just aghast at his behavior.

    Just to be clear, John, the trolls in this thread are you and Anonymous.

    Thanks Ed and Hawise for trying to get it back on track.

    ReplyDelete
  107. No problem Joseph, it is what I have to do with my son and husband all the time and let us not discuss late night gaming sessions or departmental meetings.
    As I have said, those two boys remind me of people I have met at gaming conventions, science fiction conventions and in other meetings that include groups who have found their own comfort levels among like-minded people. It is the parents who are fooling themselves and that is natural as otherwise they have to admit that all the angst and worry just led to about the same result that would have occured anyways. Their boys are growing up and developping interests and occupations, friendships and fears and they do not fit into the weird social reality that the parents associate with based on magazine articles, television and friend's anecdotes.
    My son is not like my sisters' children but then they married different men with different backgrounds and surprise- the differences get greater as everyone grows up. I just realize that to get similar results I will have to get more creative, exercise patience and deal with more gouvernment agencies.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Kev;
    I have to admit the first few times I saw my name mentioned by slugs like you and Kathleen, I was a bit taken aback by it. Now, I'm quite used to it and it doesn't bug me at all. Just the ravings of people who think that letting their kids rot is intelligent.
    Your answer to everything you can't defend is to ask for proof. Well Kev, you know the truth as well as I do but I just can't be bothered to scurry through the internet like a rat to dig up stuff like you do.
    Have you taught your daughter how to play poker yet, Kev? That was the whole point of the "monkey" comment as you know. Those words you twist will always come back to bite you, son. I suggest you start acting like an adult and start treating people with respect. Then you may earn the same in return. Sneaking around snatching quotes to bash people who are just trying to help their kids isn't very respectful, Kev. You're not very good at taking the abuse you like to give.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Arseface: "Joseph, It's difficult to have a decent discussion here with Andrews putting up barriers to communication. Maybe you could counsel him privately."

    Arseface, you are the troll; I would like to discuss the topic of the thread, but you get everything and everybody sidetracked...

    The reason is clear: you hate autistics who show that your claim regarding your son is falacious. Tough... get over it and move on.

    You will never be half the man that I am, and you never were; if you were, you'd accept Sam as is, and work with that, as I do my daughter. You failed everything. I know exactly how to work with my daughter so that she feels safe and secure, because I have observed her and found out what it is about her environment that gets to her (and then eradicated it!). My dad made a comment about how I handle her: that I don't punish her. I told him I don't need to. I explain to her what is wrong in anything wrong she does. And she gets it. And that is something my dad has found something of a credit to me and my education.

    And before you go on to insult my dad and his impending memory (since he's going to die soon), bear in mind that I know now exactly what it is that pisses you off about me.

    It isn't that I used my psychologisy studies better than you could ever hope to do. It isn't even that me and others like me prove the invalidity of your claims against Eli fucking Lily.

    It's because I am a better dad than you will every hope to be in you lifetime.

    Now, John... FUCKING GET OVER IT.

    Sam needs you more than Andy fuckpig Cutler does.

    ReplyDelete
  110. "psychologisy studies"

    "psychology studies"

    or

    "psychologist studies!

    Take your pick...

    ReplyDelete
  111. Voi fuckin' vittu!

    "It's because I am a better dad than you will every hope to be in you lifetime. "

    Read as..

    "It's because I am a better dad than you will ever hope to be in you lifetime. "

    However, JBJr... do I care... ? No!

    Now, sod off and do something useful... and leave those of us who can develop well enough to live to do just that.

    If you would like Sam to develop well enough not to need shite like ALA... let him join us!

    'Cos you and your chelation are fuck all use to him. He isn't going to get anywhere as a 'chelation-recovered autistic kid'... He'll do is as an educationally-supported developed autistic.

    Don't you like that? Well... tough titty, John.

    That's how he'll do it, regardless of what you want.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Oh, and Anonymous dipshite...

    "You have your picture up because you're vane."

    She has that pic there because she has no problem with people seeing who she is.

    Incidentally... beautiful on the outside, and clever on the inside... nowhere near as ugly as you are, whichever way you want to see it... or not.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Joseph; Can you please ask Mr Andrews to stop the insults?
    It should be quite clear that I do not hate autistic people since I wish to help all of them escape from the abyss of autism. His claim that I hate anyone is counterproductive to enhancing communications.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Fatfuck Andrews,

    "Oh, and Anonymous dipshite..."

    "She has that pic there because she has no problem with people seeing who she is."

    Where's your pic, shithead?
    Your fucking language is fucking ugly. Just like you, outside and inside, whichever way you want to see it... or not.

    Perhaps a tattoo on her forehead advertising, 'I'm Autistic' may enhance her beauty.

    As for me, I am beautiful, no matter what they say. Words can't bring me down...

    ReplyDelete
  115. JBJr: "Joseph; Can you please ask Mr Andrews to stop the insults?"

    Giev that you were the first with the insults, this is your job to stop it... siis niinku Duh!

    JBJr: "It should be quite clear that I do not hate autistic people since I wish to help all of them escape from the abyss of autism."

    You aim only to further your own pocket. Joseph has already told the world that you and Anonymous are the trolls.... Get over yourselves.

    Deal with it.

    That else, fuck off and leave the rest of us alone.

    "His claim that I hate anyone is counterproductive to enhancing communications."

    ReplyDelete
  116. Anonymous shite: "As for me, I am beautiful, no matter what they say. Words can't bring me down..."

    You have never known beauty.

    Period.

    If you had, it would appear where-ever you appeared.. and ... oh fuck, does it ever fail to appear?!

    What else can I say?

    Get help... recover from teh abyss of stupidity that is... mercury-parentism!

    ReplyDelete
  117. Andrews,
    Could you possibly engage in a heated argument without the use of so many expletives?

    If your clients could hear you now, what would think!

    ReplyDelete
  118. Anonymous arsewipe...

    "Andrews,
    Could you possibly engage in a heated argument without the use of so many expletives?
    If your clients could hear you now, what would think!"

    My clients see what you write and laugh their arses off.

    Why?

    Because you expect what you cannot give.

    You (whoever you are) have been pretty fuckin' nasty to me.. why should I not use expletives at you?

    You can't possibly come up with a sensible answer to that without trying to make out that I am less worthy of respect than you are.

    You want to co on record as saying that?

    Because if you did, it would mean you admintting that you thought that autistics were not worth much... wanna go on record, idiot?

    ReplyDelete
  119. Vittuuuu...

    "admintting "

    Liian paljon saunakaljaa...

    "admitting "

    ReplyDelete
  120. Is this form of argument what they teach pending psychologists at Uolu U.?

    ReplyDelete
  121. Andrews,
    Surely you've got the sense to look at this thread and figure out that there's more than one "anonymous" commenting here.
    If parodying you is being "nasty" then that says more about you than it does about me.
    Give me some examples of where i've been "pretty fuckin' nasty" to you.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Can't come up with any can you Andrews?

    (anon A)

    ReplyDelete
  123. Yay yippee- one of the anonymous crowd gave himself an identifer.
    [anon A]- you get the metaphorical cookie.
    See boys, it is easy and it doesn't hurt a bit.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Anon; It sounded like Andrews was drinking tonight. He's probably passed out now.

    ReplyDelete
  125. And I did it just for you, hawise.
    Is it a choc-chip cookie? They're my favorite!

    (anon A)

    ReplyDelete
  126. ForeSkin: "Is this form of argument what they teach pending psychologists at Uolu U.?"

    Learn to spell, John. It's Oulu.

    I think it's the method of argument they taught you where-ever it was that you supposedly fucked up on an MPA.

    FrankTheWank: "Anon; It sounded like Andrews was drinking tonight. He's probably passed out now."

    Two sauna beers, but I'm dyslexic. Most of the time my spelling and typography are better than John Best's... might not be that much of an achievement... but, yeh... I spell far better than he does.

    Someone too scared to give his/her name: "Andrews, Surely you've got the sense to look at this thread and figure out that there's more than one 'anonymous' commenting here.
    If parodying you is being 'nasty' then that says more about you than it does about me.
    Give me some examples of where i've been 'pretty fuckin' nasty' to you."

    Depends if you're the usual one with the very distinctive style of discourse (that is very similar to JBJr's!). Have you learned about capitalisation yet? Oh, and your second sentence there would give reasonable ground to suspect that you are the anonymous arsewipe being pretty nasty. Get over yourself.

    anon A: "Can't come up with any can you Andrews?"

    Learn punctuation. Do you think I have nothing to do all day but sit at this computer? You may have bugger all else to fill your life with but don't expect me to have such a pathetic existence. I was elsewhere advising my ex on her recent application for APL at university. I was having a late lunch with my daughter and her mother and step-dad. I was also writing materials for my ex's business, as well as a few other jobs that needed to be done.

    Stop projecting your own lack of self worth on me. It looks like terrible fashion on you; I have no intention of wearing it.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Andrews. More name calling and correcting spelling mistakes does not make you look like an educated person from Uolu U.

    ReplyDelete
  128. Oh, cute kids! Will Redwood reminds me of my child at that age, including the sense of fun and the hand/body postures. These boys look autistic to me. I hope nobody is going to be them "shysters" or "fascist dictators" anytime soon!

    ReplyDelete
  129. Someone too scared to give his/her name11/05/2006 5:16 AM

    It's not you're spelling that's objectionable. It's your OTT foul language.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Scared person:"It's not you're spelling that's objectionable. It's your OTT foul language."

    JBJr has come out with far more of that than I have, in terms of both OTT language and foul language.

    You should learn how to observe properly as well as how to spell.

    (For those not too well equipped of brain, I should perhaps point out that this issue of me tell people what they should do is my parody of JBJr, telling autistics that we should chelate ourselves... just in case it went above your heads; if JBJr is an example of what being cured would be like, quite frankly, I'd rather remain who I am).

    ReplyDelete
  131. Andrews, I hardly ever use foullanguage.
    One technique of helping someone is to break them down so they can grow. If I had some sessions with you, I'd be able to break you down quite simply. Then you might be able to learn something.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Best: "Andrews, I hardly ever use foullanguage."

    Wrong. You use it a lot. You use OTT other language even more.

    Best: "One technique of helping someone is to break them down so they can grow."

    An even better way is to respect them...

    Best: "If I had some sessions with you, I'd be able to break you down quite simply."

    Wrong. I was hanged at 12. You'll have to go a long way to be able to break me after that. You think that being hit with rosaries was something to cry your eyes out over.

    Best: "Then you might be able to learn something."

    Wrong. I've already learned way more than you'll ever be able or willing to.

    Three wrongs in a row, John.

    Bad form.

    You should have be retained in grade way back.

    Go back to school John, and learn something sensible... something you can handle.

    Like knitting.

    ReplyDelete
  133. David,
    Have you ever considered, or had councelling for the bad experiences you went through in your youth?

    ReplyDelete
  134. Andrews, Nobody respects a defeatist attitude like that which permeates the Autism Hub. As an ex military officer, I'd break you down very quickly. Wallowing in self pity never helped anyone, son.
    How did you survive being hung? Did you suffer lack of oxygen from that to cause your brain damage?

    ReplyDelete
  135. Person too scared to give a name and who can't spell: "David,
    Have you ever considered, or had councelling for the bad experiences you went through in your youth?"

    I dealt with it myself.

    Pity is that JBJr never dealt with his issues effectively.

    Here's a case in point:

    ForeSkin: "Andrews, Nobody respects a defeatist attitude like that which permeates the Autism Hub."



    ForeSkin: "As an ex military officer, I'd break you down very quickly."

    Bullshit. I'd kill you first. Quite seriously. I would kill you first. Simple as that.

    You know why?

    As a military officer it is not your right to 'break' anybody. That is torture, prohibited under the Geneva Convention, and your unremitting persistence in pursuing the outcome of 'breaking' somebody is legitimate grounds to kill even an officer.

    Check it out.

    ForeSkin: "Wallowing in self pity never helped anyone, son."

    Thankfully, I am not, nor ever will be your son. I don't wallow in self-pity, but you do: witness, your incessant warblings about how you were cheated of a 'normal' child. Rubbish.

    You got the child you got, but you were too much of an imbecile to deal with that situation. Your problem, man. Don't try to call me on this. You just don't have the nouse.

    ForeSkin: "How did you survive being hung?"

    I turned round and beat the shit out of the bastards that did it.

    ForeSkin: "Did you suffer lack of oxygen from that to cause your brain damage?"

    No.

    Did you suffer any damage to your brain as a result of being... you? Very likely.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Andrews; How'd you get down from the noose?
    All enlisted men are broken to make them good soldiers. You are no different. It has nothing to do with torture, genius.
    What is this neurodiversity thing about threats? First Leitch threatens me and now you. You're too fat to hurt anyone.
    My kid was born normal. Mercury gave him brain damage just like you. Your old man would have cured you if one had been available.

    ReplyDelete
  137. An imbecile: "Andrews; How'd you get down from the noose?"

    Let go of a few belongings and pulled like fuck. You weren't there, so don't even go into this.

    An imbecile: "All enlisted men are broken to make them good soldiers."

    Rubbish.

    The British Army never had to do that to make good soldiers. If an army has to do that, it's a totally incompetent army.

    An imbecile: "You are no different. It has nothing to do with torture, genius."

    Plenty to do with it. Numbskull.

    An imbecile: "What is this neurodiversity thing about threats?

    So it's okay for you to threaten to 'break' me, but you expect me not to threaten to kill you for your trouble?

    Since when were you an arbiter on rationality?

    You asked for that response, and when you actually get it, you start crying out 'Mummy, he's threatening me!"... that you? My God, you are an incredible wuss.

    You'd just given it up and be 'broken'? No wonder your son ended up with the idiot he got for a father. My God, John... now we know what a puffter you really are.

    I personally would kill rather than be broken. This means that I would be relaibale in situations needing secrets to be kept. You, on the other hand, would allow yourself to be broken, and spill you yellow-bellied guts (and jeopardise an operation) just to save your bleating arse. Some forces personnel, John.

    Hell, I'm a pacifist and I'd make better military personnel than you.

    An imbecile: "First Leitch threatens me and now you. You're too fat to hurt anyone."

    And you're too thick to know how stupid you look, talking like you do. Bush we expect this sort of rubbish from, but you? Actually... yes, we can expect an imbecile to speak like an anus.

    Everything you come out with, John, is shite.

    An imbecile: "My kid was born normal. Mercury gave him brain damage just like you. Your old man would have cured you if one had been available."'

    You kid was born autistic, John.

    Get used to it and stop whining like a bleeding lilly-livered wuss.

    Shitting Jesus...

    You, military man?

    With that sort of yelping that you invariably do?

    No wonder you're no longer in the military.

    Had I been your commander, you'd never have gotten in.

    Now, shut up, and trundle along and find some other people to whinge to...I'm past caring about your opinion, John.

    ReplyDelete
  138. Andrews; Why do you think we beat the hell out of the british?
    Breaking you is psychological, something you know nothing about.
    Why did someone try to hang you?
    Had you been in the same military as me, you would have been shining my shoes, son. Then I would have thrown you out. The military doesn't need pending psychopaths like you.
    Your threats are humorous, David. It just shows your stupidity that you and Leitch have to resort to that.
    As for you keeping secrets, I've seen you do enough crying here just because someone outsmarts you (as usual). You wouldn't need to be tortured. You would be easily duped to give up information.

    ReplyDelete
  139. ForeSkin: "Andrews; Why do you think we beat the hell out of the british?"

    What?

    Now you're going delusional.

    ForeSkin: "Breaking you is psychological, something you know nothing about."

    I know plenty about 'psychological', John. You know next to nothing. All you know is the word 'psychological'... and there your knowledge ends.

    ForeSkin: "Why did someone try to hang you?"

    Because they were bullies, just like you. People who had to gang up (there were two of them) to do it.

    ForeSkin: "Had you been in the same military as me, you would have been shining my shoes, son."

    God... the thought of ever being your son. Sickening.

    Ewwwww!

    ForeSkin: "Then I would have thrown you out."

    Bullshite. And you know it.

    ForeSkin: "The military doesn't need pending psychopaths like you."

    You're the psychopath, John. You're the one who fails entirely to accept responsibility for his actions, who likes to belittle others in order to make himself feel good about himself, and who thinks that women should be horsewhipped.

    ForeSkin: "Your threats are humorous, David. It just shows your stupidity that you and Leitch have to resort to that."

    You would be funny if you weren't so pathetic.

    ForeSkin: "As for you keeping secrets, I've seen you do enough crying here just because someone outsmarts you (as usual)."

    I don't cry. Period. It's something I don't do. Fact is, I don't know how.

    As for secrets... since when was anythign posted on the net a bloody secret?! You have no conception of logic, John... if you had, you'd have figured that one out.

    Honestly... for a military man with a BA and a MPA, you are remarkably thick.

    ForeSkin: "You wouldn't need to be tortured. You would be easily duped to give up information."

    Nope.

    But you would.

    Because all you think about is you.

    You don't give a crap about your son... just the money he might be able to get for you to go and gamble on the gee-gees.

    ReplyDelete
  140. jonsmum's dictionary11/05/2006 4:03 PM

    David;
    How long are we going to play this game?

    ReplyDelete
  141. David; The military discussion is pointless since fat bastards are not allowed to be in the military. Why did they hang you?
    Were your feet off the ground with the rope tightly around your neck? Were your hands tied behind your back? I don't believe you escaped from a situation like that. I think you're making it up.
    I didn't say women should be horsewhipped, just Kathleen.
    You're almost as much of a crybaby as Leitch, Dave. I think it was on this blog where you kept crying for someone to leave you alone. You were doing some good crying before I left the AutAdvo group too.
    And, about the British military, did you ever hear about the American revolution? Don't you recall who got their ass kicked?

    ReplyDelete
  142. David;
    I might make spelling mistakes, but I'm not as stupid as you think.

    ReplyDelete
  143. David;
    I think it's really cowardly and "nasty" for you to sit back and let others with the same beliefs as you, take the flack for anonymous comments made by you.
    If you have any disagreement with this, then I would expect your natural reaction would be to pipe up and defend yourself against this accusation.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Jonsmum: "David;
    I think it's really cowardly and 'nasty' for you to sit back and let others with the same beliefs as you, take the flack for anonymous comments made by you."

    Um... I'm not making anonymous comments and letting others with my beliefs take the flack for them. Why should I go anonymous when I have a blogger name.

    A recent comment by you, however, suggests that you would:

    "Jonsmum said...

    David;
    I might make spelling mistakes, but I'm not as stupid as you think."

    So you were the anonymous troll, then.

    Try this, Susan: I think it's really cowardly and "nasty" for you to sit back and let others with the same beliefs as you, take the flack for anonymous comments made by you.

    Jonsmum: "If you have any disagreement with this, then I would expect your natural reaction would be to pipe up and defend yourself against this accusation."

    And my natural reaction is to defend myself against the accusation.

    I'm astounded by your infantile behaviour, Susan. For someone claiming to be going to study for a degree in psychology, you aren't exactly looking mature here.

    Oh, and another thing... is it beyond the realms of possibility that you could stop being two-faced?

    This is where communication ends. You're beihaving like an energy sump, and so is that idiot John Best Jr.

    I shall not be responding to your idiotic rambling from now on. I have an important issue of a dying father to contend with and I certainly don't appreciate you're assinine attempts to pile more anxiety on me than I really need. Would you do that to your son? If not, you really should know better than to try doing it to me.

    I don't think I have anything else to say to you after this. You owe considerably more than an apology this time.

    Imbecile Jr: "David; The military discussion is pointless since fat bastards are not allowed to be in the military. Why did they hang you?
    Were your feet off the ground with the rope tightly around your neck? Were your hands tied behind your back? I don't believe you escaped from a situation like that. I think you're making it up.
    I didn't say women should be horsewhipped, just Kathleen.
    You're almost as much of a crybaby as Leitch, Dave. I think it was on this blog where you kept crying for someone to leave you alone. You were doing some good crying before I left the AutAdvo group too.
    And, about the British military, did you ever hear about the American revolution? Don't you recall who got their ass kicked?"

    John... your swaggering about being the big man is getting really peurile and boring now. Grow up.

    You can whistle as far as any responses are concerned now. I wash my hands of you. You're too much of a drain on people and you'll never be anything else.

    ReplyDelete
  145. David;

    You posted this comment to Ballastexistez , yesterday;

    1. David N. Andrews MEd (Dec2006) Says:
    November 6th, 2006 at 18:03

    "Amanda,
    JBJr and the rest of his dimwitted tribe will always be at this sort of game. They have no alternative. They can’t be reasoned out of corners they reasoned themselves into on the chelation issue, despite that they know it’s crap: if it weren’t, they’d have better evidence than the 'evidence' they keep pushing out now.
    I’ve just found out that Susan Lord, aka jonsmum is much more base and nasty in her intent than her (evidently) mock 'apology' to me would otherwise have suggested.
    The only way they can stop people like us from discussing our political aim (which, with a small’p', is what it is) on the net is by coming onto our blogs and causing the blog equivalent of a system hang (which is precisely why I don’t have a blog).
    They clearly represent the least charitable and least caring of people, and act in unbelievably cowardly and vile ways towards people who - at some point in our lives - have been in the same (or very similar) autistic states as their own kids. I would be very unsurprised to learn that they treat those kids like they treat us, on the basis of both JBJr’s and Susan Lord’s recent behaviour towards me.
    And the best of it is… here’s me, with my dad in hospital and if one were to ask if they can decide to ease off while I’m trying to prepare for my dad’s death (which is not too far in the future - I spoke to him last night, and also to his nurse: this is a palliative care stage… there is no recovery from hereon in). No, they evidently can’t. They are trying as best they can to try and detract me from preparing for a major stressful incident an anyone’s life… to give them my attention instead of get to grips with the fact that my father is dying.
    I mean… how selfish is that?!
    Amanda, this is the nature of JBJr and Susan Lord, and all their other little pals and sock-puppets, and it’ll be a very cold day in hell beefore any of them show any sort of humanity to anyone who disagrees with them.
    I can’t help but think that their whole basis for their reaction to us is that they want pity in such a selfish and egotistical manner; so much so that they cannot bear it that we have to deal with real issues in our lives, and that all they do is to make them worse.
    I really feel sorry for their children.
    It is clear that they were the ones using you, rather than anyone else, but they are so pathologically deluded that they cannot admit this.
    But this is what I for one have come to expect from that set of ignorant, self-centred, egomaniacs.
    They aren’t worth any more attention. They certainly weren’t worth what they were given."

    I responded to your comment with this;

    1. jonsmum Says:
    November 6th, 2006 at 22:21

    "David;
    "Mock apology"
    Actually, my apology was sincere. Unlike your "mock" denial of posting your nasty comment about my autistic son.
    Your pathetic ramblings about how someone may have used your computer to post the comment gave you away.
    I chose not to make an issue of this until you started posting abusive anonymous comments on Orac’s blog.

    "rightslapper"
    "piss and tuck"
    "is there a cat walking on your keyboard"
    "secondary school"
    "Ewww"

    Recognise these comments David? You should do. You made them.
    For a Scottsman your English is a dead giveaway, jonsmum’s dictionary/Al Fah Cajun Cowboy/any mouse

    How you have the nerve to come here talking about a "Mock apology" after you said "one day you kid will kick the shit out of you for being too stupid to realise he’s not a worthless being! I’d love to video that day! Stupid sod! LOL! One day…idiot"

    "I really feel sorry for their children."

    You’re sick!
    Is this your idea of autism advocacy?
    Is this your idea of respect for autistics?
    Are you the "Nice guy" from Finland?
    Shame on you."

    "They clearly represent the least charitable and least caring of people, and act in unbelievably cowardly and vile ways towards people who - at some point in our lives - have been in the same (or very similar) autistic states as their own kids."

    My apology to you was genuine. I posted it on three blogs so you couldn’t miss it . You think I’m nasty. You’ve clearly given us a very good practical lesson and demonstration of the psychology of "projection".

    I think you owe me an apology.

    ReplyDelete
  146. jonsmum: "My apology to you was genuine."

    Oh really?

    I distinctly got the impression from your behaviour that it wasn't. I initially thought it was, but your behaviour eventually changed my mind.

    jonsmum: "I posted it on three blogs so you couldn’t miss it. You think I’m nasty."

    You give a very good impression of it.

    jonsmum: "You’ve clearly given us a very good practical lesson and demonstration of the psychology of 'projection'."

    Wrong. You accused me of making anonymous comments of some sort, as different people, and you have to know by now that I didn't. In fact, as it turned out, apparently you were the one making very nasty comments to me and/or about me (this is the behaviour that changed my mind on the issue of your apology).

    And here we are, I'm trying to deal with that fact that in the next few weeks, my father is likely to be dead, and I am too far away to be able to see him before he dies, and your immediate concern is to try to project your pathology onto me!

    Talk about bloody selfish, Susan! You've hit an all-time low (in terms of empathy) even for you!

    jonsmum: "I think you owe me an apology."

    I owe you no such thing.

    ReplyDelete
  147. Oh, Susan... just so that you know:

    From Amanda's blog....
    ------------------------------------
    # Kev Says:
    November 7th, 2006 at 7:47

    Sorry you have to experience such inept bigotry Amanda. I see the gruesome twosome have made their usual appearance.

    “Actually, my apology was sincere. Unlike your “mock” denial of posting your nasty comment about my autistic son.”

    I can’t keep up with you Susan - is it OK or not to make nasty comments about people’s kids? How about assuming their identity? Is this your idea of autism advocacy? Is this your idea of respect for autistics?

    “Recognise these comments David? You should do. You made them.”

    You seem confused. On Orac’s blog you’ve just accused me of making those comments. Since I happen to know who did make them I can categorically state that you are wrong on both counts.
    ------------------------------------

    You have to get your head sorted about this anonymous posting.

    I don't post anonymously.

    ReplyDelete
  148. David;
    "I distinctly got the impression from your behaviour that it wasn't."

    Why?

    "Your pathetic ramblings about how someone may have used your computer to post the comment gave you away.
    I chose not to make an issue of this until you started posting abusive anonymous comments on Orac’s blog."

    What made you think someone else may have used your computer to post the comment to me?

    "And here we are, I'm trying to deal with that fact that in the next few weeks, my father is likely to be dead, and I am too far away to be able to see him before he dies, and your immediate concern is to try to project your pathology onto me!"

    Forget about blogging, turn off your computer and get on a plane and go to your dad. Nowhere is too far away when you're father is dying.

    ReplyDelete
  149. jonsmum: "What made you think someone else may have used your computer to post the comment to me?"

    The fact that I had had a number of things going wrong with the comupter for some time, and was finding out about them. As I type this, I'm currently trying to get rid of a file called scvhost.exe. It looks almost like (namewise) a bona fide Windows system file but it isn't. It's a serious threat.

    ------------------------------
    scvhost - scvhost.exe

    Worm which tries to disguise by using a similar name with the Windows process, svchost. svchost is an important system process required by Windows, while scvhost is actually the worm W32.HLLW.Gaobot (also known simply as GAOBOT).
    This worm connects to an IRC server as a bot, where it is controlled by hackers to perform DoS attacks on other IRC users.

    Removal instructions:

    » Symantec Security Response - W32.Gaobot Removal Tool

    » W32/Gaobot.worm.gen at McAfee

    » Remove W32.HLLW.Gaobot, removal instructions

    Author: N/A
    Version: N/A
    File size: 197,120 bytes
    Typical location: N/A
    System process: No
    Requires network: Yes
    Requires internet: Yes
    Security threat: Security threat Yes

    http://www.ppedia.com/p4_scvhost-scvhost.exe.htm
    ---------------------------------

    That is in addition to the one I shifted finally this morning that had my fucking calender talking Arabic to me; and in addition to a number of other processes that had taken my computer over. I installed a software package that has a firewall, and it was telling my about many attacks on my computer which were actually packets being routed via my computer to a different one.

    That's why I was concerned about things comeing from my computer... because there had been attacks on a number of others via my computer. Basically using it as a proxy server.

    jonsmum: "Forget about blogging, turn off your computer and get on a plane and go to your dad. Nowhere is too far away when you're father is dying."

    You think it's that easy?

    At the mo, I'm between jobs, my funding ran out when I finished the MEd, and I have no means by which to get there. Whatever money I could use is currently tied up in my ex's loans from me that helped to get her business going. It is therefore inaccessible.

    I'd suggest that you really shut up now.

    I've had way past enough of this.

    And so have most people by the looks of it.

    ReplyDelete
  150. David-

    My deepest sympathy about your dad. I lost my mom in 2001, and I can understand what you are going through. What Jonsmom doesn't get is that you are a nice guy to people who are decent, rational and kind.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Ruth: "David- My deepest sympathy about your dad. I lost my mom in 2001, and I can understand what you are going through. What Jonsmom doesn't get is that you are a nice guy to people who are decent, rational and kind."

    Thank you. It's hard enough at this point to know what I'm going to be doing from one day to the next. I have my dad about to die in the next few weeks, maybe even days - he was sounding odd last time I spoke to him (Sunday night) ... he's on serious painkillers now and it's easy to tell when he speaks.

    His pelvis is practically gone on one side of his body (at least in the area around the pubic arch) and the cancer has metastatised through his body to his lungs and now a pathological fracture of the shoulder (I wasn't told exactly which bone). At this stage, it's all palliative and he may not get to his 71st, let alone the end of the year.

    Mi situation just now is that, whilst I am a freelance educational psychologist, I'm earning part time from teaching English in an adult education college, and sometimes I can make something from doing an assessment or a set of lectures. The situation is similar for the Finnish psychologists graduating this year. I have specialist knowledge that is useful and, being a native speaker, I'm the only one - certainly in Kotka - qualified to assess immigrants who do not speak enough Finnish to cope with assessments in Finnish. So I have to wait to be called, and then may have to wrangle for the payment to do it (KELA doesn't make payments for clients seeing educational psychologists).

    So, whilst the theiry is that things are supposedly great... they're not until they get to be. And until then - and jonsmum doesn't seem to get this - the money I have tied up in my ex's business is all there is, and that is tied up. If I had to get that back, her work would fold, and that would be damned hard on her and my daughter.

    ReplyDelete
  152. David;

    "I'd suggest that you really shut up now.

    I've had way past enough of this.

    And so have most people by the looks of it."

    You brought "this" subject back up last night on Ballastexistenz, saying this, and more;

    "I’ve just found out that Susan Lord, aka jonsmum is much more base and nasty in her intent than her (evidently) mock 'apology' to me would otherwise have suggested."

    You brought it up David. Not me.

    So if you've "had way past enough of this. And so have most people by the looks of it."

    I'd suggest that YOU really shut up now.

    ReplyDelete
  153. These boys are both autistic. They have not recovered from anything. Why do people exploit their kids like this?

    ReplyDelete
  154. "These boys are both autistic. They have not recovered from anything."

    How the hell would you know what they've recovered from? Did you see how they were a year ago?

    2-3 years ago my son was composing amazing poetry. As he started to degenerate after the MMR, his last words were "Mom, I need some medicine." Now, we get all excited if he says "hi" or asks for something rather than screaming and pulling my wife's hair. There was a time that he stared blankly at the wall.

    "Why do people exploit their kids like this?"

    Don't be such a bastard. When desparate people see some progress, and make more of it than a cold outsider would, you call that exploitation? At worst it's false hope. At best, maybe they are closer to the facts and know more than you do.

    ReplyDelete
  155. "IMHO teens not wanting the autistic label is something they were taught from YOUNG.

    at mommy and daddys' knees. autistic=bad. Normal=good."


    My son's last words as he degenerated, were begging for medicine to make him better. He knew parts of himself were slipping away. That was before I even knew that what he had had anything to do with autism.

    How typically barbaric for you to blame the parents for the child's illness. I browed onto this site as one more desperate parent looking for ideas and information and instead of science, I find people telling me my son's anguish is my fault.

    You're worse than the vampires that try to take our money in exchange for fake cures. What do you get out of this? Sadistic pleasure for kicking desparate people when they are down?

    ReplyDelete
  156. Wow, I am sorry to hear your pain. My son has Aspserger Syndrome and is similar in many ways to these boys on Youtube. He is not "recovered" any more than those two boys are. He still struggles with social things and does not percieve the world (nor will he ever; though he may learn to decipher much) as most people do; any better than these boys. I thought that the boys struggles were quite obvious, so I wonder who told these people that they are recovered? I love my son exactly the way he is but we are always trying to move ever higher in cognizance and behavior so that he will be able to live unassisted, since this is his goal. It will be harder for him, but in so many ways his autistic disorder is a bonus: his honesty, transparency, ability to think from a logical perspective vs. emotionally driven. He was also nonverbal until 4 yrs. of age and very withdrawn. We home schooled him until the 4th grade. He had no formal ABA or special preschools and he functions well enough today to go the store on his own, ride his bike to school, be on the track team, sing solos in the choir, etc. Even so, he is not what I would call "recovered". He is who he is and that is precious and still autistic.
    I am sorry that your son begged for medicine. I have seen the frustration and pain of our autistic kids. We all wish we could wish it away (their pain), but we must teach them to persevere and thrive in spite of it. And they do. Hat's off to them!

    ReplyDelete
  157. Good Grief!

    I am finding myself disgusted that I wasted my time reading the majority of these posts. Let's discuss the fact that out of 158 postings, many were insanely repetitive, negative and fruitless. I have a teenage son with ASD and thought that I could connect with a positive online community, instead of the intelligence and time draining dribble of "intellectual" bull I have witnessed here today. Don't bother responding to me. I won't ever return to a blog that is obviously here as a soapbox for immature hotheads with the inability to take the high road. Nothing has been learned here..out of 158 comments.

    ReplyDelete
  158. These kids are correct---they are obviously no longer autistic. The problem they have remaining is a SPEECH problem of slight stammering. Stammering does NOT make one autistic!

    ReplyDelete