Saturday, November 03, 2007

Quick Note About Low vs. High Functioning

The other day Harold Doherty wrote a post where he proclaimed that science had demonstrated that what are called high functioning and low functioning autism are different entities.

I believe this highlights a basic misunderstanding of the criticism of the validity of the low vs. high functioning labels. No one has ever claimed that those classifed as low functioning are biologically exactly the same as those classified as high functioning. In fact, I'm not surprised at all that neurological differences would be found when you make group comparisons of this nature. I would expect the same to be true when you compare almost any two behavioral phenotypes. (I also questioned Harold's view that Jenny McCarthy could yet be proven correct, in light of the neurological findings whose significance he was endorsing, but that's neither here nor there.)

I believe a similar misunderstanding occurs when I speak of autism as a cultural construct. This seems to be taken as "autism does not exist" or "autism is basically the same as normality" which is not at all what that means.

The main technical criticism of the low vs. high functioning classifications, in my view, is that they are inconsistent. Sometimes autistic disoder means "low functioning" whereas Asperger's means "high functioning." It's not clear where PDD-NOS is. Other times, high IQ means "high functioning" whereas mental retardation means "low functioning." Then again, lack of speech could mean "low functioning" while having good speech indicates "high functioning." Some like Harold would seem to want to redefine "low functioning" to be associated with behaviors such as self-injury. None of these different ways to separate low from high functioning - none - are consistent with one another.

There are also critiques of the classification from the perspective of disability rights. Joel discussed this recently.

134 comments:

  1. I have covered all of this before I am sure.

    Words are the problem, and the interchangeability and negotiation of common meaning between different socio-linguistic and socio-economic groups.

    HD belongs to a particular community wherein the negotiated meaning of autism is what they hold it to be, and any other community who dares to use the word otherwise are effectively heretics.

    That is fine within that community but gets as utterly confusing as an English smoker who asks for a packe t of fags in the USA when it comes to debate with a wider community who have different negotiated meaning.

    The problem is such a statement as "science proves" that is no better than the statement "God hates fags" in terms of any kind of meaningful proposition, for "Science" is not a thing, but another culturally negotiated set of meanings, there is no God of Science to whom there is ultimate appeal to strike down those who deny such crass statements as Doherty's with lightning bolts.

    Science does not say anything, scientists do, and what is a scientist? again no proof of anything.

    Perhaps what he is trying to say is that "scientific discourse" tends to favour the hypothesis that there are two distinct kinds of neurology that seperate high funtioning and low funtioning autism,

    Trouble is that you can't even say that because the terms are just empty categories to be filled by whatever you put in them. They are containers not lables even.

    It is back to Humpty Dumpty land, where a word means what you want it to.

    Therefore I could invent the category "pig brained man" and however I defined it would be correct because the concept itself is vacant. I am sure anyone reading might know who the first recipient of the category might be, but will the verdict of science agree.

    High and Low are words which express relativity to each other, and funtion is not an absolute.

    Not only is there never a division between a high or low anything, a cross country runners high fence is not the same thing to a steeplechase jockey.

    If scientific method proves anything, it proves the absurdity of Mr Dohertys propositions. The man needs an education as he is funtioning in that capacity so far below me in his understanding of logic and its application to language and discourse

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  2. Thanks Larry. I'm afraid that might have gone over Harold's head, though.

    I guess another way to put it is that if science were to demonstrate group differences between autistics and non-autistics (which it has) this doesn't mean we aren't still all human. You can categorize all you want, but in the end it's all constructs within constructs. If you're going to invent a construct, at the very least there should be some consistency, purpose and usefulness to it.

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  3. Larry,

    That was a brilliant post. Thanks so much for it. You have said everything that i feel about science and definitions.
    I have no idea if you have read my posts and if you agree or disagree with me or if you dislike me or couldnt be bothered with me or have no idea what i feel about anything.
    But i totally agree with everything you have said.
    Joe. I am not trying to start an argument or anything...im really not. Im interested.
    I have heard it often stated from the neurodiverse community that there is scientific evidence that there is a different wiring of the brain for autistics as compared to non autistics.
    I have a few questions that i would personally like to know the answers to and maybe you or someone else can help.
    What is this evidence? Has it been peer reviewed? Can science show specifically what the differences are? Are there differences in all people on the spectrum or just people with a diagnosis of Aspergers.
    I feel it would be misleading if it is only people with the diagnosis of Aspergers who are 'wired differently' or if this different wiring extends to all people who are diagnosed with autism.
    Aspergers, after all, is just one form of autism.
    All people with aspergers have autism but not all people with autism have aspergers.
    So does this belief that autism is a natural variation extend to the entire spectrum or just those with aspergers.
    Thanks for any insight/input.

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  4. What is this evidence? Has it been peer reviewed? Can science show specifically what the differences are? Are there differences in all people on the spectrum or just people with a diagnosis of Aspergers.

    There is numerous evidence, a lot of it peer-reviewed. It's not Asperger's specific. They are group differences. Basically, I don't think every single autistic person will have some specific brain characteristics, but they will tend to cluster in certain ways.

    Larry often appears to be against the scientific model, but I think he's basically objecting to the interpretation and exploitation of scientific findings, rather than the usefulness of science as a means to find out about the world.

    For example, the guy who suggested that you can use IQ tests across races to drive social policy - I'm sure that's the kind of thing Larry objects to.

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  5. Well I shall go off on another diversion into wiring and difference.

    If you look at a TV set and a Radio, it may be clear to you what the purpose of one against the other is, but basically they are the same technology, designed to decode and present electromagnetic signals. A TV is just a radio, with a CRT tube add on.

    It gets more complex when you try and compare a British and an American TV.

    They look the same, they do the same, but they are actually quite different, one uses PAL and the other NTSC and they will not play each others broadcasts. However I doubt if even an engineer taking one apart could tell from the construction which one was intended for which without a manual or some clue.

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  6. The severity of autism depends on how much mercury is in the brain. Weirdos who diagnosed themselves with Asperger's as adults don't count.

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  7. I follow you Larry and I am not saying I disagree with the belief that there is a different wiring in the brain of people who have autism.
    My dad always said since i can remember that he feels certain people are just born to do certain things.
    He would say that his whole life he noticed that people who were the engineers in companies and did all the calculations tended to be totally different than all of the grunt workers.
    They tended to have messed up hair with a little body odor and sloppy clothes. They had a hard time holding conversations too. He wasn't putting them down at all. He was more against the typical people than anyone else.
    I have an account where there are a whole bunch of grunt workers and one guy who does all the calculations. He is the exact image of the guy my dad described.
    I've seen it elsewhere too.
    Believe me, i know thats a generalization and could even be offensive...i dont mean it to be.
    I'm just saying that it wouldnt surprise me in the least if these math/calculation people had a real difference in the way their brains processed information.
    But the catch is that some of them wouldnt be considered 'autistic'.
    Not enough criteria met for the diagnosis.
    To me that even lends more credibility to the argument that there is a difference in brain wiring. There are different degrees of it just as there are different degrees of typical people in the neurotypical world.

    But it also creates some problems because maybe this different wiring of the brain is not just exclusive to autistic individuals.
    In other words maybe there are many people with this different wiring and maybe a good portion are autistic but certainly not all.

    The only problem i have with it all is that it puts people into categories and when that happens they are discriminated and overlooked for their own unique value.
    Im not a big fan of labels being imposed on people.

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  8. Some people are smarter than others. That's why they get the office jobs. It has nothing to do with any brain "wiring". There is no different "wiring". This different "wiring" nonsense is just part of the Neuroinsanity scam. People who go to school, get educated, and can manage things wind up with better jobs. That does not make them autistic or Aspergian or anything else. The fact that educated people don't pal around with uneducated grunts doesn't make them different.

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  9. That's not what im really saying though John.
    What I am saying is that it makes sense that people are drawn to the type of work that they are good at.
    This of course is not always the case.
    But I have noticed that many people who have the jobs of engineers and who have to use advanced math in their daily work oftentimes have a lesser capacity for social interaction.
    Sometimes stereotypes are derived from reality. although im not a big fan of stereotypes...sometimes they have a kernel of truth.
    Take for instance the stereotype of a professor. All disheveled and not very good at talking to people or explaining things in layman's terms.
    Its an exaggeration, but most stereotypes are. (Think Einstein).
    I was in a rock band and at one point we practiced in our guitarist house. His dad worked for IBM working with computers. He was a genius at computers. His hair was a mess and he couldn't look people in the eye when he talked to them which he rarely did.
    Suddenly he would stop me and talk to me about computers and he just talked on and on and on. Then I would see him in town the next day and say 'hi' and he would look at me quickly and mumble 'hi' and look away and walk away very uncomfortably.
    He was the Einstein stereotype.
    Lousy at interaction but a genius with numbers.
    What I am saying is that there might be a type of person who does process things in a different fashion than the rest of us. I don't believe they are all autistic though.
    I think autistics might have a propensity to have this different wiring though.
    But I also cant just blow off what you say either. Maybe this is not a different wiring but more an environmental damage that has caused this change in the way the brain processes information.
    I think both sides first need to find out if it really is a different wiring and then they can find out what has caused this different wiring.
    John, I think that you would claim that if there is a Different Wiring it is actually damaged wiring.
    It's a provoking viewpoint. It may be right. But it may not be right.
    Maybe there is a real damage going on due to mercury in the environment...but maybe when people with aspergers (different wiring) are exposed to mercury they develop classic autism.
    There are a lot of possible scenarios and as for me I am keeping an open mind on it.

    John, you say that these individuals with aspergers don't really have autism...but they do. Its a FORM of autism. I wonder if you aren't looking at classic autism (that often times is caused by biomedical issues) and feeling that this is the only form of autism. Aspergers is real and it has so many similar characteristics of classic autism that it is legitimately put into the same category.
    And I agree that it can be frustrating when these individuals with aspergers try to speak for the whole community of autistics when they only really represent a portion of them.
    Aspergers is not the only type of autism. My son had autistic symptoms that had nothing to do with aspergers. But the funny thing is that as I cured him of these conditions then the true personality of Jake came out.
    And that personality is really aspergers like.
    That made me go back and look at my childhood and my wife's childhood.
    Sure enough we had a lot of 'asperger' traits (not classic autistic).
    My wife did roll her head on the pillow a lot though while listening to music (over and over for an hour or more) as a kid.
    She also had to be told when to stop talking about a subject.
    So maybe Jake is no longer a child with medical issues. They were cured and despite what people who weren't there tell me, it was real and it did happen.
    But now I am left with a child who is much more aspergers than anything.
    A parent yesterday even said that to my wife at school. She said "Jake use to be so autistic but now it just seems like he has aspergers".
    She was there from the beginning and never knew what we were doing with Jake. She would just call us when we started B12 and ask us what we are doing with him because she saw an amazing progression in him in one week. She didn't know we had started B12 that week.
    But of course she imagined that progression and We imagined it too.
    Hell, maybe I imagined that phone call.
    Same thing with the diet...and Glutathione. But its all in our imagination.
    Anyways John. This is Jakes true personality now and we need to work on some social issues but he is in so many ways like me as a kid...in some ways not though.
    So I don't think he is any longer damaged by Mercury or any other thing that might have been given him those classic autistic symptoms (im not saying it was or wasn't mercury...but we never did get any mercury out of his system and his non asperger symptoms went away).
    I don't think I was mercury damaged as a kid or any other kind of damaged either.
    So I think to say its all mercury damage or to say its all natural variation is simplifying something that is probably far more complex than mankind will ever understand...the human body and the human brain.

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  10. Some of Kanner's patients went from being obviously autistic (in late childhood) to what you call Asperger's-like. So I'm not sure why that's considered an extraordinary event. I've also explained the reality of placebo effects in autism, and I'm not going to go over that again.

    There might be many causes for a phenotype. I think we're all in agreement about that. Causation is really not that important if the phenotype is essentially permanent (or unless you're looking to sue someone.)

    I also don't think it necessarily makes sense to assume that "mild" forms are just normal variance, whereas "severe" forms are due to damage from toxins. Is this reasoning true in Down's as well? There are no preset limits to human variance.

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  11. Since virtually all autism is due to mercury poisoning, it is safe to conclude that those who improve over time probably have the APO-E3 protein and are able to gradually get rid of the mercury on their own allowing for some improvement.

    Phil,
    If it was some sort of different "wiring" and was genetic, it probably would have existed for a long time (It began in 1931) and it would not be increasing the way it has. The only reasonable conclusion is that it was caused by thimerosal.

    What did you use for chelation? What metals did come out? Mercury would be the last to come out after all the lead and other junk.

    Several generations may have been minimally affected by mercury before they started to deluge kids with it in the late 1980's. If you got enough improvement to consider that your son went from autistic to Asperger's, why wouldn't you keep going and try to cure him all the way? These people who drone on and on about nacceptance only want people to accept it so curing it doesn't prove the drug companies caused it. You should not listen to anything they have to say. They are nothing but liars, good liars.

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  12. "Words are the problem, and the interchangeability and negotiation of common meaning between different socio-linguistic and socio-economic groups."

    On a related note there is an NAS leaflet that is arousinga lot of ire among parents seeking a biomedical cure. They object to the caption to a photo that states, "Sean Mason has autism and prefers not to speak."

    These parents assume that Sean is non-verbal because he cannot speak and are so angry that the NAS interprets this as a personal choice.

    They cannot accept that there can be quite able [high functioning?] autistics who find it easier to communicate without speech.

    Forcing them to speak instead of using a communication device would be akin to the old method of forcing deaf children to speak and refusing to let them use sign language.

    Most people would regard speech as a sign of high functioning but preventing people from using their preferred communication method in favour of speech can actually decrease function.

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  13. Keep going John. I think you almost got Phil convinced.

    Mike: Another example is that of people who can walk, but only to a limited extent.

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  14. Mike and Joe,
    Accepting a disability is accepting defeat. Every effort should be made to help the disabled overcome their handicaps completely. You don't just hand somebody a pair of crutches and give up on them when their legs can be fixed.

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  15. If a handicap can be overcome/cured, great. But why proclaim something can be cured when such a cure has not been demonstrated? And if there's no such cure, why are technology aids a bad thing?

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  16. In many papers high-functioning is defined as having an IQ OF 70 or above. Low functioning is defined as having an IQ below 70

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  17. Thanks Anon. That is the official definition. However, there are some problems with it. First, which type of IQ test should be used to determine the functioning level? Second, that's not the definition that is used in the autism discourse. Take, for example, Mike Holmes, who has an IQ of 150. High functioning, right? Except he cannot speak and communicates very slowly by other means. In every day usage, speech seems to determine functioning level.

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  18. John.

    we used TD DMPS first the Buttar protocol then the Cutler protocol.
    We did it faithfully for about six months and then stopped and saw no regression. We never saw any improvement. We had started b12 shots the month before and saw miraculous improvement and that particular improvement continued so I don't credit chelation for any improvement while we were doing both.
    After six months the only noticeable metal that moved was tin.

    I stopped because I believe if you do an intervention you need to know what you are looking for.
    I was told ahead of time what to look for with b12 shots and how long it usually takes to see improvement.
    It was exactly what I saw. I was told with chelation and hbot I would see improvement...I looked and saw none.
    So I stopped. Chelation never gave us any results.
    What did was the diet and b12 and glutathione. It makes sense too because jake had leaky gut and bad yeast. This would also cause nutritional issues. So in the end the diets and b12 and glute took care of these issues and RDI and other stuff gave him the social skills he needed and the real Jake came out.
    The real Jake has a lot of asperger traits. Why would chelation take away Jakes intense interest in certain subjects? I am the same way. I get REALLY into things and love talking about them. I could bore all of you talking about the Salem Witch Trials or Sci Fi collectables or Music or Art or The Great Pyramids and UFOs or The Bible or mad cow disease...the list is endless.
    But I have enough social skills to know when I can talk about such things and to whom I can talk about such things...Jake will learn.
    I don't need to chelate that natural intense interest in things out of him. And I wont be able to chelate social skills into him.
    Im not saying it wont work for some or that it will work for some.
    I just know that the above interventions I mentioned allowed a Jake who had medical issues to become the Jake he was meant to be.

    I just take issue when people have a belief already set in place and when they hear my story they claim it cant be true due to the fact that it does not conform to their pre-existing belief.

    Any good scientist takes the information in front of them and tries to understand and explain it. They don't try to discredit it because it doesnt fit into their narrow thinking.
    I find that this good science is missing in the world. From evolution to autism. I don't believe in evolution and never have...never will. At least Leaky finally admitted that they now understand that they really don't understand about human development.
    anyways...thats a different subject.

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  19. Phil,
    The Methyl B-12 would not do any good unless mercury was there preventing methylation. The fact that it helped proves that mercury is present. I've been chelating for over 3 years. The improvement has been very slow but it continues. I use the low-dose Cutler protocol because I think it's safer than giving large doses of DMSA. I only use ALA. If you did not use ALA, you had no chance of removing any mercury from the brain since it is the only thing that will drag it past the blood brain barrier.
    The first thing that was fixed for my kid with chelation was his gut problems. Mental improvement came later.
    Many people have intense interests in certain things. Excluding the fun of socializing is a problem. I don't know if your son was ever normal. Mine was. That's why I won't ever accept half a cure.

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  20. Phil: Scientists already tried to confirm the impressive improvement rates reported by Dr. Neubrander for Me-B12. I understand the trial was quietly cancelled after it was unsuccessful, or something. It's hard to take treatment claims in autism seriously at this point, when the whole thing looks like the boy who cried wolf a dozen times. Can you blame skeptics when there's even stuff like the Thought Screen Helmet? (You're not claiming that the parents who reported improvements with the helmets just imagined the whole thing, are you?)

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  21. ForeSam
    Our classically autistic son has been improving over the last three years too! its slow...but its awesome. He went from no language...to talking, from not feeding or dressing himself...to doing both..
    and we have the chelation to thank!!!
    wait...no we dont. we dont chelate.

    Oh I know...its the 40 hours of ABA!!!!
    strike that, we didnt do that either,
    oooo...it was the b-12..

    on second thought. nope. we havent done that either,
    hmmm. was it my awesome parenting skills that brought him back from the abyss??? (maybe i should write a book!!!)
    i have wild suggestion maybe he GOT older, matured, learned a thing or too...and we have...our cute little boy to thank.
    strike that. cant sell anything that approach.

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  22. Amanda,
    Your son probably has the APO-E3 protein so that he can eliminate mercury gradually. That's the most likely reason for improvement without treatment. He could also be short on testosterone which would be helpful. Maybe you're feeding him natural chelators and aren't even aware of it.

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  23. John,
    Two things.
    I dont know if my son or myself was ever normal. Because i really have never heard a definition of normal.
    What is a normal person suppose to be?
    Who gets to determine what normal is?
    If you are talking about medical issues then i agree they need to be cured.
    Also, you say that mercury prevents methylation.
    I've never heard that. Has it been shown to be true?
    A claim like that i would want some kind of proof.
    You say that you improved your sons gut problems and made mental improvements later.
    I did these without chelating. I tested him for metals right after i found out he was autistic. (about two months later).
    and then again before b12 and chelation.
    and then again after six months of chelation.
    The levels were all the same...especially mercury.
    So there was no chelation and yet a ton of improvement.
    That would seem to show that maybe not all autistic symptoms are caused by mercury because i had tremendous improvement without mercury removal. or any metals for that matter.
    Joe, did those scientist use children who had the same autistic symptoms and characteristics of the children whose parents attribute great gains from b12?

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  24. Phil,
    It was Richard Deth who explained that autism was caused by mercury preventing methylation. He thought 80% of autistic kids would improve with MB-12. Neubrander showed that over 90% improved with MB-12. You did say your child improved with MB-12, didn't you? Did he regress when you stopped using it? Are you still using it?
    While all kids are different, they all fit into the parameters of normalcy until you figure out there is something abnormal about them. When my kid stopped looking at me, that was my first clue that something had scrambled his brain.

    I never bothered trying to measure metals. I only measure symptoms. When the symptoms are gone, I'll be done.

    How did you measure mercury levels?

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  25. John,
    I put Jake on the GFCF diet day one of finding out he had autism (I found out by an internet search of symptoms).
    The amazing change we saw in Jake had me convinced that within six months he would be 100% normal.
    The progress started on the third day and didn't stop.
    But as it turned out the gfcf diet only got him so far.
    I then considered chelation (Jan 2004) so I got his metals checked with a hair test at great plains.
    Before anybody thinks that Great plains and hair test are bunk just listen a little to this story.
    At the time people didn't understand that extremely low mercury levels were a red flag.
    Jake had high levels of everything but mercury so I thought he was ok.
    I remember it like yesterday.
    He didn't have OUTRAGEOUS levels of anything...but they were all high.

    So I didn't chelate. I started the SCD diet/Enzymes instead and saw really great gains but nothing to make me think he would be cured from the diet.

    I did RDI with him and continued to see skill levels improve. I tried all the supplements (DMG,vitamins, TD glutathione, Fish Oils etc) and saw no changes in him what so ever.

    I have daily notes from this time to show anyone...I knew what to look for and I was observing him intensely.

    So two years pass and I decide to do b12 and chelation. I start b12 and the doctor warns me that if he is a responder that the changes will only last for about six months. He wont regress after that but he wont progress much either.
    He had to tell people that because when your kid is a responder you immediately think you have found a 'cure'. what parent wouldn't? you give a few shots and suddenly see AMAZING EXPLOSIONS of skills skyrocket.
    I had talked to a LOT of parents and knew that the progress eventually stops. I also had talked to a lot of parents who saw no change in their kid. I didnt know what to expect from Jake.

    I had another hair test done at this time and it was virtually identical to the original hair test.
    So those tests may be flawed but at least they are consistent.
    So we start b12 and are simply shocked...jaw dropping shocked at the change in him by the fifth day (third shot).
    It was absolutely amazing.
    I could see why any parent whose kid responds to b12 would think they have found the cure.
    This was two years into intervention and I had tried a LOT of other stuff and saw NO results...so it wasn't like I thought everything worked (I have run into parents like that).

    a month into b12 we started chelation. The areas Jake had progressed in from b12 continued to improve but no new areas of improvement came from chelation.
    By the third month of b12 you could see that Jake really had stopped progressing from b12 but was losing nothing that he had gained. By the fourth month of b12 we went to daily shots but we didn't see any more progress so we stopped doing that in a month. By the sixth month we stopped all together because we saw no more gains...actually we had seen no gains after the fourth month.
    We saw no regression and did chelation with him for six full months but knew we were seeing no gains from it.
    Nothing actually.
    The third month of chelation we had two test done. One blood and one hair. The doctor didn't know I was doing a hair test. Both were sent to the great plains lab. Mine was private using a fake name. The doctors had Jakes name on it.
    They both came back virtually identical.
    There had been no movement of any metals except tin.
    No mercury had come out.
    The two test were also identical from the test of six months before and 2 yrs and six months before.
    So no metals had come out and great gains had been made.
    my conclusion is that Jakes progress had nothing to do with the removal of metals because none had been removed.
    So why would I believe that his symptoms (that had gone away) were the results of metals?
    makes no sense in Jakes case.
    We stopped chelation and b12 and saw no regression at all.
    One year later we did hbot. We did about 40 dives in a soft chamber.
    We saw nothing. No progress what so ever in any area.
    Jake is a normal kid who has a hard time with auditory processing and has some asperger traits.
    I feel that the auditory processing will eventually correct itself with age (he turns 8 in Jan.)
    I feel then that he will learn on his own how to exhibit his asperger traits in a more socially acceptable way and they will in no way hinder him in life at all. Much like my traits didn't hinder me.

    John, I do not believe that anyone should ever take mercury (or any neurotoxin) off the table when discussing possible reasons for developmental delays.
    But I do believe Jakes story lends credence to the idea that many kids with autistic symptoms have them for other reasons than mercury or metal levels.
    I say this to you in hopes that you will broaden your considerations concerning possible causes of autistic symptoms and developmental delays in children.
    Thanks, Phil

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  26. Phil,
    There has to be a reason that MB-12 gave you some improvement. The fact that he did not regress suggests that some mercury did come out and he is now making MB-12 on his own.
    You are aware that the hair test needs to be interpreted for deranged mineral transport, aren't you? It can't stand on its' own to give a precise count of what metals are there.
    Did you use ALA?
    Measuring before and after chelation may show you what metals are able to be detected but it does not show you what came out during chelation. For that, you would need to do a challenge test while chelating.
    I think you may have fallen into a trap by listening to neurodiverse philosophy. These adults claim to have symptoms but many of them were not diagnosed with anything as children, same as you. It's difficult not to compare yourself to your child since talk of genetics is all around us. The fact is though, that you didn't have enough problems as a kid to be identified as abnormal. So, why accept abnormality for your child?
    If you didn't use ALA, it's something I think you should consider. DMPS or DMSA chelation without ALA may improve some symptoms by relieving other parts of the body of mercury but the mercury will still be in the brain.
    I could convince myself that I have Asperger's traits because I used to spend 8 hours a day hitting golf balls or because I'd sometimes spend 24 hours a day researching methods of handicapping horses. But, none of that hindered me socially or in any other way. It was just some very difficult pursuits that I wanted to master. You're listening to a philosophy that is designed to prevent parents from helping children. When you accept a less than normal condition, you have quit on defeating it. The drug companies who poisoned our kids would love us all to quit and accept this nonsense, as told to us by phonies like Amanda Baggs and David Andrews.

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  27. Your son probably has the APO-E3 protein so that he can eliminate mercury gradually. That's the most likely reason for improvement without treatment. He could also be short on testosterone which would be helpful. Maybe you're feeding him natural chelators and aren't even aware of it.

    For a guy who dislikes science and scientists, you sure like to spout scientific-sounding stuff, John. None of the speculation you engage in is documented in the scientific literature, but you have absolutely no problem giving out medical indications, based on what? What Andy Cuttler said?

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  28. Joe,
    I don't dislike science or scientists. Andy Cutler and Richard Deth are scientists. They are truth telling scientists, unlike the scoundrels who work for the CDC and Pharma.
    Where do you think I learned this stuff? I learned it from all sorts of scientists. It was written by scientists which makes it part of the scientific literature.
    The things I discuss may help kids while the statistics you like to play with don't serve any purpose other than to obfuscate the truth.

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  29. John,
    there are a few points I would like to go over with you.

    you wrote.
    "
    There has to be a reason that MB-12 gave you some improvement. The fact that he did not regress suggests that some mercury did come out and he is now making MB-12 on his own."

    I know you have children in mind, but this is the same type of reasoning that is used by science that I do not accept.
    It is this type of reasoning that I reject.
    Remember this is a typed comment so you cannot tell how I am 'saying' this...I am saying this to you in conversational tone and not in an attacking tone.

    Let me explain what I mean.

    You have the right to believe that mercury is behind all autism. And the right to proclaim it.
    But my problem is when people take data, or in this case anecdotal testimony, and make it fit their philosophy.

    Doyle had a great quote on science that was actually recently featured on googles home page...it says...
    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

    It seems that you are looking for a way to explain Jakes progress in a way that affirms mercury's role in his progress. (or the removal of it).
    The key thing to remember is that in the hair tests there was no movement of mercury.
    And you said yourself that only ALA will move it out of the brain.
    We did not use ALA...so why did Jake progress? You agree that without ALA there would be no movement of mercury from the brain.
    Also the test showed that no mercury was moved from the body. Yet he progressed amazingly and (this is SO important) in the course of one month.
    How much mercury could have left his body in one month? (while not showing up in any hair test).

    To me the facts truly suggest that Jake progressed even though mercury was not eliminated from the body.
    The same applies with gfcf diet.

    I think you run the risk of falling into error by not expanding your thoughts that other factors could play a role in autistic symptoms.

    you also wrote
    "The fact is though, that you didn't have enough problems as a kid to be identified as abnormal. So, why accept abnormality for your child?"

    I am not accepting abnormality for my child. I am accepting that he may have some behavioral characteristics that are seen in many people with Aspergers Syndrome.
    I see many people in my daily work life who have a few traits that are considered aspergers traits. They aren't autistic, but they do have traits...you know, the guy who tells me all about baseball and every pitchers record even though I told him im not into baseball. He is also the guy that cant tell im not interested and I am making every gesture I can to let him know I want to move onto a different subject.
    But that is his only trait.
    I feel that I have some of those traits and that Jake will too.

    My message to parents is to not look at those traits and try to chelate it or anything else it out of them. It may be who they are.

    Take yourself. You hit golf balls as a kid for long lengths of time.
    If you would have had a bunch of autistic symptoms (and for sake of argument we will say that those symptoms were due to mercury) and your parents were getting the mercury out of you and then the real John Best started to come out and you grabbed a golf club and started hitting balls for eight hours...well, many parents would think that you still need more intervention to stop doing that.
    They would see that as a symptom that needs to be removed rather than understanding that it was actually just you being you.

    Ive seen parents do this with their kids...I almost did it with Jake.
    That's all im saying. To hit golf balls for 8 hours is an asperger trait...but that's not saying you have aspergers at all...its just saying that as you cure your kid he may tend to show some traits like that which are the same that you had as a kid and that's where its important to say "these aren't traits that need to be cured...these are genetic traits and I am fine with my son hitting golf balls or shooting baskets for 8 hours...I did the same thing as a kid".

    But someone else looking in might think "man, those are totally traits of a person narrowly fixated".

    they would be wrong though.

    Many parents get rid of the traits of autism that are being caused by medical issues and then move onto trying to get rid of behaviors of a kid just being a kid...like hitting a golf ball for 8 hours.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Phil,
    My tone is also conversational.
    I used to hit golf balls for 8 hours at a time when I was about 50, not as a kid. I was going to try the senior golf tour but I got injured two years in a row just before the qualifying tournament.
    I really think you've missed something by not trying ALA. If the MB-12 gave you improvement, it's because mercury was preventing methylation and your son could not transform b-12 into mb-12. Otherwise, how do you explain the sudden improvement? If he was already making mb-12 on his own, why would he have improved?
    I took ALA myself to see if it would do anything for a condition I had with my hands "falling asleep". It worked. My hands have not "fallen asleep" one time since I took it and this was happening to me every day. At $6 for a bottle of it and a little lost sleep to give the night doses, don't you think it's worth trying, even for a short time to see if you can take your son to the next level?
    BTW, I believe mercury is not the sole cause of autism. I do think it's responsible for most autism so I don't bother addressing other possible causes. That's where doctors should earn their money, figuring out other causes.

    You should take a look at Aspies for Freedom sometime and see how pathetic these teenagers with Asperger's are. It's not a life I'd want for my kid.

    ReplyDelete
  31. John, what do you think would be the 'next level' for Jake?

    The only problems i see with him is an auditory processing issue and narrow fixations and an overall delay of a year or two that i feel he will catch up with.

    So (again, in a conversational tone) what do you think i could possibly benefit from chelation?

    Phil

    ReplyDelete
  32. Phil,
    Not having met Jake, it's hard for me to speculate.
    If he is still considered disabled, I would keep trying to get rid of the disability. Look around you at the people who celebrate Neurodiversity. I mean, do you really want a kid to wind up like these people?
    Granted, some of them seem to function pretty well but, then you have those who turn out like the kid at Virginia Tech. And, there are lots of homosexuals amongst them too. If they have to choose that lifestyle as a last resort, we can't condemn them because no woman would have them but I don't envision that as happiness for my son. For them, it's part of accepting their abnormality. I'd rather cure it completely.

    ReplyDelete
  33. And, there are lots of homosexuals amongst them too.

    Yet another priceless Bestism.

    ReplyDelete
  34. John,

    One thing i dont understand though is that you believe that the Neurodiverse community really arent autistic. So in reality my son doesnt have a chance to end up like them.
    Do you consider the neurodiverse crowd autistic?
    If not then they arent like the Virginia Tech kid cause he was autistic. (i think i heard that somewhere).
    My son was diagnosed with autism so in theory he wouldnt end up like the neurodiverse crowd whom you feel arent autistic.
    So i kinda dont understand what the Neurodiverse crowd and my son have in common if they arent really autistic and my son is.

    As far as them being homosexuals...that confuses me even more. I thought that homosexuality was a condition arising from too much affection from the father shown to their sons. Im real careful how i hug Jake.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Phil,
    Most of the leaders of Neurodiversity are not autistic, some are, or claim to be, like Joseph. It's pretty obvious which ones have a problem.
    I don't know exactly what causes homosexuality. I think it has more to do with absent fathers, overbearing mothers and a lack of self respect.
    Whatever, lots of the followers of Neuroinsanity are on the spectrum. While they think it's something to celebrate, it looks like a pathetic existence to me.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I'll celebrate my Asthma then.

    It might kill me, but it ain't going away, so why worry.

    I think Fore Sam really needs to have lived in the era of the Hamlet Cigar ads to know what making the best out of adversity means.

    "Man that is born of woman hath but a short time to live, and is full of misery. He cometh up, and is cut down, like a flower; he fleeth as it were a shadow, and never continueth in one stay."

    And not that is not actually the KJV it is from the book of common prayer and is from the Tyndale translation (not a lot of people know that)

    celebrate what you have, because it is not forever.

    ReplyDelete
  37. "I thought that homosexuality was a condition arising from too much affection from the father shown to their sons. Im real careful how i hug Jake."

    My God. In all seriousness - what is wrong with you? You've just out-stupid John Best. Quite a feat.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anon,
    Instead of criticizing our ignorance, why don't you explain what causes homosexuality?

    ReplyDelete
  39. no seriously,
    everyone knows that homosexuals cant throw baseballs. Why? because they spent too much time being hugged by their dads rather than playing sports with them.
    I think there is a STUD-y on it somewhere. It was printed in Honcho Science and reviewed by Mens Men Journal.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Most of the leaders of Neurodiversity are not autistic, some are, or claim to be, like Joseph.

    I've talked about this before. I don't have official papers and such, nor have I claimed to, but the psychiatrist who diagnosed my son said I'm autistic, if you must know. It's also obvious I'm autistic. I know what I am. If I had use for official papers, I'd go and get them. Proving something to you or anyone else is not a compelling reason though. Either way, whether you believe I'm autistic or not is inconsequential.

    BTW, "leaders of neurodiversity" is a categorization you've made up. Neurodiversity is not a club.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Joe,
    The shrink was probably just looking for more business. If you don't have papers by the time you're 3, you aren't autistic.

    "BTW, "leaders of neurodiversity" is a categorization you've made up. Neurodiversity is not a club."

    I know, it's a cult.

    Phil,
    I don't know about the hugging thing but the kids I knew who grew up to be queer never played sports. You'd think they would have enjoyed themselves in the locker room.

    ReplyDelete
  42. "Joe,
    The shrink was probably just looking for more business. If you don't have papers by the time you're 3, you aren't autistic."

    I know you think this, but please, ForeSam, use your brain. A diagnosis can only be given if a child'a parents/caregivers agree and recognise that there needs to be an assessment. Many adopt a "wait and see policy". Before my older son was diagnosed the overwhelming advice I got from other parents was to leave things, that he was too young, that it was too soon to tell. I'd already voiced a few things to the health visitors but could never quite articulate the full extent of why I felt he was different, until I wrote down what I was trying to say and handed one of the health visitors the writing. It turned out that she had the same beliefs, that there was something different about him and she practically insisted I made an appointment with the GP to have hi mreferred for assessment. When I made the appointment I discovered another HV had also expressed her thoughts on the matter and believed my son to be on the spectrum (they couldn't diangose him themselves). He was diagnosed at the age of two years nine months which we were very lucky about, since it gave us access to the help he needs and also to the understanding. When he was diagnosed we were told it was pretty clear. But I might easily have waited another year. A lot of parents in the UK don't receive a diagnosis for their child being on the spectrum until later, because of high waiting lists, or because of a relucatance to give a child a label at an early age, or for other reasons.

    ReplyDelete
  43. John thinks that autism had never been seen before 1943 because Kanner said it hadn't been reported before. (Kanner even explained autistic kids were given other diagnoses such as feeblemindedness and schizophrenia.)

    It's not surprising that the requirement that autistic characteristics must be present by age 3 is taken by John to mean that autism must be diagnosed by age 3.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Joe,
    The kids born in 1931 or later may have been given an incorrect diagnosis before Kanner figured out that they were different from kids who had not been poisoned by thimerosal. There were no autistics before 1931. Ergo, no autistics could have been misdiagnosed before that since they did not exist. Does that help you understand?

    ReplyDelete
  45. It helps me understand that most of your views are based on circular reasoning.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Joe,
    There's no circular reasoning there. It's you who's trying to pervert Kanner's words.

    ReplyDelete
  47. As for not being autistic if not diagnosed before age three, what about all of those of us who were born before, say, 1960? Back in those days, parents did not necessarily take their children to the doctor if they were not talking on schedule. Mine certainly did not. But without any intervention, I started talking at about age four and a half. I guess that really had nothing to do with autism, did it? I get the impression that John Best has to have somebody to hate, much like Fred Phelps. If it's not late-diagnosed autistics, it will be gays. If not gays, it will be someone else. John Best refuses to acknowledge that not all cases of autism are severe like that of his son. I am sure glad I didn't have him for a dad. I think I would have been severely autistic instead of mildly.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Poly,
    If I was your father, you would be cured. You would thank me.

    I know it's in vogue throughout Neuroinsanity to claim I hate autistics and everyone else. What you should ask yourself is if people who cure autism, or people who neglect autistic children and allow them to remain disabled hate them. Another thought could be that those who won't try to cure their kids are simply lacking intelligence which is certainly no crime. This brings to mind the old saying that empty buckets make a lot of noise. Sometimes Poly, it's wise to remain silent.

    ReplyDelete
  49. jennyraliseemo11/07/2007 12:26 AM

    Who is more low functioning~ phil-got-no-use-for-science-commander or john-the-brutish-best jr?

    I think Best knows that mercury didn't make his kid autistic because Best knows that he's a classic case of Asperger's plus sociopathy, Best is a liar and needs to be locked up quickly.

    I think phil is just dumb as a brick and stuck on himself. NPD? or just LoIQ plus record breaking insecurity.

    You two ought to get together and talk science, Best you almost have pillcommander the ex-con convinced, there. Maybe you two could take your conversation over to YouTube where doctor phil is phamous.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Jenny,
    If by low functioning you mean Sexy and Smart...then i vote for me.
    You called me PillCommander...lol. thats very clever. You also said im an ex con...hmmmm, do you go for those bad boys? I know a lot of women youtubers sure do.
    Dont get mad at me cause my son can throw a baseball farther than your sons which proves he's all man.
    The other day i saw him hug a male classmate...i quickly led him outdoors into the backyard and made him throw a baseball fifty feet.
    I feel that he is ok and it was just a momentary loss of reasoning that made him suddenly act gay.
    I blame it on his autism.
    Autism will do that to you ya know...look at that gay senator. He voted for autism research and the next thing you know he's in a truck stop bathroom.
    I think John Best makes a good point that the mercury that causes people to be autistic is the same mercury that messes up thier sense of heterosexuality.
    Just keep on throwing baseballs with them and dont let them hug other boys and stay away from thermometers and they should be straight...which is another way of saying 'not gay'.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Phil (gays cant throw baseballs) commander!!!! what have you been reading??
    showing physical affection to your son isnt going to affect his sexuality!!!!!!
    but boy will it affect his self esteem, how he relates to other people, future relationships with his own kids...

    For God's sake...hug your son.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Jenny,
    You're confused about sociopaths. Neuroinsane people who advise decent people to let their kids rot in the abyss of autism when cures are available fit into that definition better than those who actually help children.

    Amanda,
    My father never hugged me and I'm not queer. I do hug my sons in the process of wrestling with them while teaching them how to fight. I hope that doesn't screw them up.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Foresam...yeah ok, that explains a lot.

    (following your and Phil's reasoning...
    wrestling/hugging at the same time...
    you better watch out they could end up bisexual.)

    ReplyDelete
  54. Amanda,
    My son wont grow up a butt nut because i wrestle with him and teach him how to fight! Thats what men do...fight and make sweet love.
    Women cook and i can tell you that in all my years i have never had one decent meal made by a lesbian.

    It is these freaks of nature who cant fight or cook that has ruined the world and thats why gas is so damn expensive.

    Just look around you and open your eyes...teach your girls how to cook and your boys how to fight.
    This is what all the african tribes did and thats why they are still going strong.
    Its nature.
    The way mankind was meant to be before chemicals came along and scrambled our thinking and have us on the brink of electing a woman to run a country that men built. Real men built...not those fairy men who spend their days decorating their homes.

    ReplyDelete
  55. wow Phil. I dont know where to start with that one.
    you put this conservative (not a republican- thank you) homeschooling stay at home mom in her place! I'm gonna shut up now and bake me some pies...and inform my cookie baking, dinner fixing, diaper changing breadwinner hockey nut of a husband that he isnt a real man.
    i'm really curious though...
    how many lesbians have had you over for dinner???

    ReplyDelete
  56. Amanda,
    Im sorry if i had to put you in your place...because you should have already been in your place. In the kitchen or raising the kids while the real men went to work and made the money.
    As far as lesbians...ive had a lot of them make me dinner...they are terrible at it but its all i can do.

    Listen...you should all know that i am only kidding.
    John, I dont have anything against you but you are in serious need of some help.
    I think you are a well intentioned person...I just think that you are either a fraud or someone who really is in need of help.
    if you are real then I know you wont get help and you will hate me after you read this but i dont care...you are very much out of touch with reality.
    You can go ahead and blog about me but i dont care...you really need to be helped if you even exist.

    As to joe and the rest of you...you lost all credibility with me because you respond to john best.
    He is either a fake or is really in need of help and you all saw him as an easy target and thats why you respond to him.
    You do not make parents who believe in biomedical issues look bad by attacking john best. you shame yourselves.

    obviously i am not against gays and i hug my kids and i was just trying to show you the stupidity of johns arguments.
    I am not sure john best exist. He may be the frabication of a person who wants to discredit mercury issues. or he may just be a troubled individual who needs help...either way i will avoid him.

    no serious blog would ever let his insane tirades continue...I think he is a fraud.
    I think he works for the makers of vaccines.
    John Best is disinformation at its finest.

    Joe is an enabler.

    I am still just a swell guy.

    some things never change.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Phil...
    s'alright Phil,dont think anyone here takes you seriously.
    (you mean your are going to quit this thread and not going to imply we're all going to hell????...man...i was waiting...)

    ReplyDelete
  58. Phil,
    I'm not going to explain why I say some of the things I say while arguing with the psychopaths of neuroinsanity. All you need to know is that you have probably given up on your son too soon. Giving any credibility to the neurodiverse loons shows that you do not fully understand the nefarious nature of neuroinsanity's existence. I hope that dawns on you so you can stop making an idiot out of yourself by agreeing with anything they have to say.

    ReplyDelete
  59. amanda,
    I try not to state the obvious ;)

    ReplyDelete
  60. Amanda,
    You don't have to worry about going to hell. The stupid people who fall for neuroinsanity's propaganda will not be punished for their stupidity. Only the leaders will be punished for trying to hide the truth about thimerosal.

    ReplyDelete
  61. John is actually a real guy who either lies or actually believes what he says he believes, who makes real death threats and really impersonantes autistic kids. That question comes up a lot though. He's not one of the "neurodiverse" making the mercury militia look bad or anything like that.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Joe,
    Please tell me about the death threats I've made. I can't recall doing that.

    How do I make the "mercury militia" look bad by pointing out the faults of Neuroinsanity? Do my sane opinions on perverse behaviors like homosexuality make anyone look bad? Perhaps you can explain the thinking that makes someone agree to be sodomized voluntarily. It doesn't sound very sane to me.

    ReplyDelete
  63. I'm not going to go look for them John. But it is well known you've talked about having people killed, on your blog.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Joe,
    Yes. I'd like to see lots of people killed. I believe in the death penalty. That's a lot different than threatening to kill someone. I don't believe I've done that.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Phil - you just made an utter and total fool out of yourself. John Best Jr is a grade-a asshole (even the military who kicked his ass out agree) but at least he doesn't go around begging for emotional support. He's pure, unadulterated genuine fool but knows this isn't a popularity contest. He's certainly not popular in his home town, believe me.

    And John Best Jr - do you make sure to give your little girl extra special daddy hugs to make sure she doesn't turn out queer?

    ReplyDelete
  66. Anon,
    Thank you, aside from the idiotic comment about hugging my daughter. To be thought of as an asshole by a bunch of psychopaths who lie about the causes of autism means I'm doing a good job.
    BTW, I left the military voluntarily when my service commitment was over with an honorable discharge. So, trying to besmirch my reputation by claiming i was kicked out just shows you aren't smart enough to argue with me. You hide in anonymity which shows you don't have the balls to argue with me. And, trying to assassinate my character because you're too stupid to argue with me just makes me smile. Thanks again.

    ReplyDelete
  67. I am sorry, but I cannot resist. I found this on the new Scienceblog guy, Greg Laden's blog...
    A study of former high-school American Football players has found that more than a third said they had had sexual relations with other men.


    Of course it is football, not baseball. I am not sure how far a football player can throw a baseball.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Anon,
    begging for emotional support?

    THANKS!!!!!

    this is a GREAT example of people on this blog reading things in my comments that i never said!
    WHERE and i mean WHERE OH WHERE do you see me begging for emotional support???? LOL!!!

    From who? you guys? you guys debate john best...that automatically qualifies you for having no credibility. I dont know if John even believes his arguments.
    As soon as he made the comments about homosexuals i disregarded him and just had fun talking about kids throwing baseballs and how if they cant they are gay.
    Go back and read my comments...anyone with half a brain can see that they are outragous and i obviously dont believe them.
    when i wrote the one about homosexuals cant throw baseballs i was over at the loft of citygirlseven and using her computer.
    she was hitting me in the back of the head while i wrote it because her best and dearest friend in life whom she has talked to everyday of her life since she was 5 years old is gay. He is also my good friend and him and his partner always visit. Im not trying to say 'many of my friends are gay'. i dont look at such stuff. i am just saying how ironic it was that i used her computer for that.
    so i dont believe any of that stuff and some of you actually couldnt tell...i know autistics take things literal sometimes. many of my autistic friends (including citygirlseven) sometimes have a hard time telling when i am joking.
    so i dont look down on you guys for that...i look down on you for debating john best though.

    so where the hell did you see me begging for emotional support?
    If theres one thing in life i have NEVER needed from anybody its emotional support. If you cant tell i am confident to the point of arrogance!
    Its my way of having a little fun in life.

    ReplyDelete
  69. So John Best, we know you like to wrestle with little boys to make sure they don't turn out queer. Do you give your little girls extra special hugs to make sure they don't turn out queer? Just a thought. You seemed to enjoy chasing after Lietch's little girl.

    We who share a place of residence with you know far more about you than these internet goons. Your transition from military man to gambling addict for example. Honorable my ass.

    And Phil? You still here? Mince back off to your emotional supportive lady friends on youtube girlfriend.

    ReplyDelete
  70. "And Phil? You still here? Mince back off to your emotional supportive lady friends on youtube girlfriend."

    Do i detect a bit of jealousy?

    ReplyDelete
  71. Anon,
    You're almost as good as Kevin Leitch at perverting peoples' words. I wrestle with my sons to teach them how to fight. Making sure they don't turn into queers is another ballgame.

    Phil (or whoever's playing that role), I think you spent too much time listening to Christschool. Becoming a neurodiverse nitwit is not a smart choice.

    ReplyDelete
  72. John,
    I assure you that i am the one and only, youtube famous, handsome and sexy, expert on all things autism, Phil (cue sparkly smile) Commander!

    as for Christschool...he's a good guy and I am proud to call him a friend. We disagree on many things but one thing we do agree on is that it really is pointless to debate people who are hostile and ignorant. something we both have been (and occasionaly still are) guilty of. But you and some others take it to a different level where it has nothing to do with the passion of your beliefs...it just has to do with mental issues.
    I dont hate you or anyone for that matter...its just that i am not convinced you are real and if you are i am not convinced that you believe half of what you say, and if you do i am convinced that you are not someone i want on my side of things.
    I am not at war with autistic people or autism.
    Some of them may hate me but thats ok.
    They will just have to get in line to beat me up...theres a lot of jealous husbands who got dibs on me.
    Take care John.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Phil ( or whoever),
    Refusing to confront criticism of deranged thinking is evidence of cowardice. That's why Christschool is incapable of replying to those who criticize his insane videos.

    Neurodiversity is the cult that's at war against autistic people. The cult leaders are trying to prevent autistic people from helping themselves.

    Anyone who buys neuroinsanity's line of BS needs someone like me on their side to point out to them that they are being conned. That's why I speak for young children who have idiots for parents.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Phil, you Said...
    "you lost all credibility with me because you respond to john best."
    in a thread in which you responded to John at least nine times...
    i'm slow on recognizing humor I must admit, but i'm certain that the impression i got will be the same one
    most will have after reading this...
    "Phil Commander, who I thought was probably basically a nice guy (if not extremely confusing/conceited),
    is just as cracked as John."
    again after this i doubt the regular readers will take you seriously ever again.

    ReplyDelete
  75. John,


    Is a white neurotypical male who is not gay a more desirable element of society than a black neurotypical male who is not gay?

    just curious.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Phil,
    Are you a bigot like Joseph who has no use for my black stepsons?

    ReplyDelete
  77. Grow up John. I once replaced 'autistic' with 'black' to illustrate a point about a statement you made, and you're still trying to make something out of it. You're pretty pathetic.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Joe,
    As I recall, you made some crack about fried chicken and black people. You then balked at making that same statement to my black stepsons.

    ReplyDelete
  79. I didn't make any 'cracks'. I recall I was making a point about stereotypes, which you obviously will never get.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Amanda,
    this was my first opportunity to ever talk to John Best. I wanted to see if he was reasonable.
    I found out.
    I had read one of his hating autism blogs about a year ago and it irritated me so much i never paid attention to him again. that was my first and last exposure to him until now.
    So i will go back to ignoring him which is what a friend of mine told me all along. He's not worth debating because he is just ridiculous and shouldnt be acknowledged.
    i totally agree with that person now and told them so.
    You guys obviously know him and know his issues and yet debate him and respond to him.
    You guys have no excuses.
    I read his profile and he listed a book by Hitler as his favorite books. I wanted to know if he was racist. so i asked. I wont ever talk to him about autism again though.
    And as far as if i am a nice guy. I am. none of you really know me...i am the fartherest thing from conceited that there is...thats why i joke around about it so much...if i really thought i was something special do you think i would make those kind of jokes?
    I really dont believe in science but i honestly do have valid reasons for this...it has absolutely nothing to do with autism though. nothing at all.
    So what exactly makes me a bad person? that you guys started making fun of me being on youtube and making it sound like im some big deal on youtube or that i think i am so i just started laughing to myself and making jokes about how i am famous or something? That i have views about science that you guys just dont agree with?
    For that im a bad person?
    Really...none of you guys really know me and i honestly dont care what anyone has ever thought of me...i never have and never will.
    As Gary Numan once wrote "It's so surprising just how quickly things can end, like a hero on a platform of friends".
    Ive never given a damn if people like me or dislike me. And i have a ton of friends in the non virtual world and many in the virtual world. I have no enemies in the real world but some in the virtual world. big deal.
    All i know is that i just celebrated my 20th wedding anniversary and when i come home my kids are thrilled to see me.
    So i guess i must be doing something right.
    Hell, I dont even fart. I'm that special.
    Have a good time in HELL everybody! LOL

    ReplyDelete
  81. Happy Anniversary Phil, 20 years is a record these days.

    ReplyDelete
  82. thanks!
    we got married on halloween...costume wedding.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Phil,
    I think I still have some emails that we exchanged some time back. Would you like me to post them to refresh your memory?

    ReplyDelete
  84. So Phil,
    Are you going to admit that this was not the first time you talked with me?

    ReplyDelete
  85. like i said...lets see them (thats another way of saying 'put up or shut up'.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Oy. Okay, I love a good catfight, but this is getting sad. Here's how it breaks down:

    John = troll. Duh. That goes without saying.
    philcommander = troll. This was a little more challenging to acertain, but I'm certain of it now, what with all the hugging your child will make him gay and forcing him to throw a baseball will cure him of his gayness.

    I'm just a lurker here, but can we stop feeding the trolls? This is getting out of hand.

    ReplyDelete
  87. But Phil,
    You said you didn't want me to post them. If I put them up, it will show that you were once too mentally well to associate with Neuroinsanity. It would be easier to admit you had erred, wouldn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  88. Re: trolling...

    I've stated I have a policy on moderation, in the blog description and on various other occasions. I might consider changing that and start banning people, but I would announce it first. Right now I don't see any major need to do that.

    ReplyDelete
  89. post 'em John...in their entirety.
    Joe, i understand if you ban me...i really do. There would be no hard feelings at all.
    Phil

    ReplyDelete
  90. Phil,
    Some sane people are fooled by Neuroinsanity so I haven't given up hope for you yet. As it seemed that you were of competent mind at one time, your lack of judgement concerning Neuroinsanity could be something you might wish to rethink. That said, if you can't admit that you did talk with me back in February, it would mean that it did not simply slip your mind and you have become a liar just like the rest of the Neuroinsane.

    Since, as I stated, I have not given up on you, this is your opportunity to show us all that you are not a liar. I wouldn't want to pin that label on someone unless it had been earned.

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  91. in my comments i said that i never had the chance to debate you. YOU emailed me and i responded in February. Share those emails with everyone John, ive got nothing to hide. not that anybody cares...i sure as hell dont.
    so if you got them...show em...if not...go away.
    Phil

    ReplyDelete
  92. Phil,

    "this was my first opportunity to ever talk to John Best. I wanted to see if he was reasonable. "

    Talking is different than debating, Phil. We're making progress though. You did admit that you talked to me before this.

    Now if we knew that that mid winter exchange of information had simply slipped your mind, we'd know that you were not a liar. That would leave the option open to consider that you had been duped into accepting the insanity of neuroinsanity and it would not necessarily mean that you had become one of the leading liars within the cult. For, as all sane people know, neuroinsanity is nothing but a bunch of lies.

    ReplyDelete
  93. john youre a strange dude...if you got emails you want to share then share them...if not...why continue this line of conversation?

    ReplyDelete
  94. Phil,
    The content of the emails would be off topic and would probably prevent you from being accepted into the cult. I only wanted to establish the fact that your assertion about never having talked to me was not true. So, that's accomplished.

    You want to question my opinion of the neuroinsane but claim you've only casually looked at my blog. If you had read some of it, it would become clear how despicable these people are, including your friend Christschool.

    I'm not strange at all, Phil. I'm just an average guy who likes to hang around golf courses and race tracks and I get a little pissed off when I learn that my kid was poisoned by his vaccines and liars like the neuroinsane defend those vaccine manufacturers with their lies. I'd just as soon have my kid cured so I wouldn't have to bother with these jerks.

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  95. whatever john.
    I have those emails too and they time and again i say in them that i understand where the neurodiverse crowd is coming from and i understand their feelings.
    They also would show the neurodiverse crowd that i wasnt the one behind exposing amanda.
    This is ALL off topic and YOU emailed me a long time ago and i responded to your emails and then left you alone.
    Just cause you hang around normal places doesnt mean your normal...bad logic.
    Anyways, either show the emails or drop the conversation and let joe have his blog back.
    If anything those emails would show everyone that i am very understanding and supportive of their views and that they really have no idea of what went on with the amanda baggs situation.
    Take care John.

    ReplyDelete
  96. This is a portion of one of the emails I wrote to John Best.
    He has my permission to show the entire emails but they are off topic and personal.
    I am not ashamed of anything I wrote and this is how I explained my view of the Neurodiverse Community to him.
    I wont let him imply that i said negative things about this community.
    I know this is off topic Joe and i apologize. I hope you understand that John is trying to smear my name by talking about contents in emails.
    The 'he' in the begining is refering to Christschool. I am not saying that my comments in this email are accurate...it was my impression at the time. I am just showing I had no hatred towards this community.
    this was written Feb 4 2007

    "he feels (and a lot of others in that community feel) that there is a core
    element in a person that makes them autistic. that element cant be changed.
    an autistic should be given every skill possible and many in the community
    feel that even biomedical approaches are fine if they give those skills. but
    their point is that some things you cant change, its because it is a
    different wiring of the brain. so when they hear 'cure autism' they feel
    that its impossible because the brain is just wired differently and they
    feel that we are saying that something is wrong with them fundementally.
    many of them have been bullied their whole lives and feel that this is just
    another form of it...being told that they are wrong for thinking the way
    that comes naturally for them. when our community says 'cure autism' we mean
    something different. but i can see their point of view. if i was diagnosed
    with autism i wouldnt want people all screaming out that the condition i
    have and am comfortable with needs to be cured. i have asked many of them
    why do they accept that label...i personally wouldnt even if diagnosed. they
    say that it helps them to understand themselves better and after years of
    bullying and being cast aside or always being the tag along at work and
    school (that the others would ditch if they could) they now feel a sense of
    belonging for the first time in their life. thats why they accept the label.
    but they dont want people now telling them that what they were diagnosed
    with is something horrible. i honestly can see their point.
    i think it comes down to defining what we mean when we say cure
    'autism'...what are we talking about when we say autism? i think its
    different than what they are talking about.
    i personally dont want anyone to feel bad about themselves. ive stopped
    using the phrase 'cure autism'. partly though because i dont really know if
    there is a true difference in autistic people from neurotypical people. and
    even if there is does it matter? my son wont wear the label autism. but if
    someone does choose to, i dont want to portray being autistic as a negative
    thing. im focusing more on giving skills and encouraging others to give
    their kids skills either through biomedical intervention or behavioral
    approaches.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Phil,
    I am not trying to smear your name at all. I'm trying to help you regain your sanity.

    There is no " core element" that makes someone autistic. That's part of the sham of neuroinsanity. It fits right in with claiming that curing autism is killing the autistic person. It's insane!

    As part of the biomedical community, you should talk to some parents with cured kids and see if any of those kids want to be reinjected with mercury to reclaim their autism that has been killed. I'm sure if you ask that question, every person will laugh at you.

    Being autistic IS a negative thing, Phil. It sucks. The people who are claiming it's beautiful and should be celebrated are trying to obfuscate the truth. Those people are not autistic. A few of them may have Asperger's but they have nothing in common with kids who may never learn to talk, toilet themselves or cross the street safely.

    The fact that they spend lots of time bashing the scientists who help severely affected kids should make it obvious to you that they are not being honest. They are associated with Quackbusters which is an arm of the drug industry. That should be all you need to know to conclude that they are completely dishonest.

    The fact that nobody was celebrating the joy of autism before 1999, the same year we learned that autism was caused by thimerosal, is another tipoff that their rhetoric is disingenuous.

    These propaganda experts talk a good game, Phil. You have to ask yourself why they call everyone "quacks" who cures autism. Would they call doctors "quacks" who cure broken legs, or cancer, or hangnails?

    They intentionally confuse the difference between Asperger's or simply weirdness with low functioning autism. Ask yourself why they do this.

    ReplyDelete
  98. jennyraliseemo11/10/2007 2:05 AM

    John Best Jr outs himself again,
    "Being autistic IS a negative thing, Phil. It sucks."

    I guess it was John who was really begging for emotional support all along.

    Phil, we don't want to discuss science with people like you who are too ignorant to realize how ignorant they are. Get a book, Pill. Read it for meaning.

    What's with the messianic pose for your myspace photo? A radiating halo? No, you don't have an ego problem, noooo.

    If my memory serves me you posted comments to John Best's blog, besides these e-mails that John has, and you were trying to torment an autistic woman calling her a fake. You were taking the word of a couple of internet sociopaths, Best being one of them, and trying to be a he-ro by attacking an innocent women verbally. This is not a good way to win the hearts of the neurodiverse.

    Phil "What would Phil do?" Commandments, Maybe you could go to Derry and meet John and tell us if he purchased his wife over the Internet. Because he was an old guy an still not married, kicked out of the military and maybe a bit desperate?

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  99. Jenny my dear sexy love,
    I don't think I posted to johns blog...maybe you got your facts wrong.
    As far as the Amanda baggs thing...none of you know that story really. You think you do but you don't. I don't blame you for thinking you know the true story...but ya don't! none of you do. So believe me, you don't want to go there and I am sure Amanda doesn't want you bringing it up either that's why she never does.
    I promised her I would let it rest...I intend to keep that promise to her.
    That photo of me on myspace is from the year 1985 when I was 19 high on LSD and drunk on whiskey. I use to wear fur coats and leather pants and lived in center city Philly. I was dangerous then and now im a nice daddy. I put an effect on the photo and it looked cool (it kind of looks how things looked to me back then...all glowing...) and so I put it on myspace.
    You see it and think I look like an angel or god...hmmmm...maybe you are seeing what you want to see...or seeing me how YOU view me.
    Am I a deity to you Jenny? How sweet...
    if you dont want me to write anymore on this blog then stop talking to me...im not letting any of you have the last word if the last word is attacking me.
    Why dont you just say "We Love You Mr Commander" and be done with me.
    I think that none of you can let me go...its like that love hate thing...you all really hate me but deep down inside all you really want is for me to give you a little attention.
    Lets have a poll...how many of you think i am great vs. how many of you think i am sexy.

    ReplyDelete
  100. Jenny,
    Frauds are not innocent.

    ReplyDelete
  101. I don't appreciate you posting baseless acusations on my blog, John. Take that somewhere else. You have a blog. BTW, for anyone who doesn't know, Amanda has disclosed all information about her past, including official papers, precisely because of John's harrasment. CNN and other media have checked on her background.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Good comment thread. Watching PillCommander and John Best trying to outsmart each other sure is fun!

    Get some help, ForeSam. Read a book, Phil.

    ReplyDelete
  103. I would love to know how many of you people telling me to read a book actually talk to other people with aspergers and autism on the phone daily and how many of you are in contact with people who have aspergers and autism who are in homes. I meet these people in homes with high functioning and low functioning autism daily. I talk to and befriend them.
    How many of you can say that?
    How many of you can say that you are the only friend to some people with autism...you are the only one who has ever taken the time to get to know them on a first name basis?
    If you cant say that then dont you dare tell me to read a book. I see it first hand while you simply write blogs and email each other.
    seriously, i have never met such a bunch of pompous individuals in my life.
    Until you get involved with the autistic community on a daily basis and in person helping and befriending them dont tell me to read a book.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Joseph, I have only read the abstract of the article that you mention in your post, and it doesn't explain how the subjects were categorized into low and high functioning groups. But I did find this part of the abstract interesting:

    "Because of evidence suggesting age-related differences in the developmental time course of neural alterations in autism, separate analyses on children (7.5–12.5 years of age) and adolescents (12.75–18 years of age) were also carried out. All of the cortical shape abnormalities identified across all ages were more pronounced in the children. These findings are consistent with evidence of an altered trajectory of early brain development in autism, and they identify several regions that may have abnormal patterns of connectivity in individuals with autism." (Emphasis added.) To me, this suggests that it would be premature for a parent of a "low functioning" child to assume that his future as an adult lies in an institution.

    Larry, I couldn't agree more that the terms high functioning and low functioning serve more as containers than as labels as they are used in discussions of autism. What you have forgotten in your excellent discussion of the limitations of language is that Harold Doherty is not speaking the language of science, he is speaking the language of lawyers. This is a different animal, you know.

    ReplyDelete
  105. jennyraliseemo11/13/2007 1:23 AM

    Pill, today I helped a man who has undiagnosed Frag X to change over his health insurance policy to a better one. He likes me. He's a nice guy. He can't read. I helped his mom yesterday, she's a Frag X carrier and has some developmental issues, because of that.

    And yesterday I also read some autism research papers and discussed autism science with people who actually read books. Amazing, huh?

    And since you keep going on about sexiness. I don't think you are the slightest bit attractive, but I see you think you are as you keep mentioning it and you video yourself all sweaty and "manly" looking. Ho hum. Dumb guys are just not attractive, Phil, and you can't fake intelligence.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Gosh Jenny,
    You really do have a crush on me don't you?
    If you want I could let you be a member of the PhilCommander Fan Club.
    You would be number 3,435
    You get all kinds of cool things...im auctioning off the shirts i wear in the videos on ebay.
    I know that you are having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that someone so handsome as me can also be super intelligent. You just cant seem to reconcile the two.
    Its a common problem women have with me.
    Take care Jenny.
    Phil (Jennys' guy) Commander

    ReplyDelete
  107. Jenny
    I had to laugh out loud about the sweaty and all manly looking comment.
    A lot of women have told me that...it really does show you how clueless i am.
    I would have never in a million years thought that a guy who is all sweaty would be attractive to women...i sometimes film videos after i jog...i use to anyways...i think about things on the jog and go home and record them but i am always worried that i look a mess cause im all sweaty.
    Then women all reply to me telling me how manly i look when i am all sweaty! LOL
    you just noticed it too!
    i think that is so funny and i stopped doing videos on the philcommander channel because i dont want to seem like im trying to be sexy or anything.
    but you sure did notice huh?
    Hmmmm,
    Maybe i will do a special work out video for you Jen.
    Do you prefer a tank top or a sweaty t shirt?

    ReplyDelete
  108. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Jenny,
    Frauds are not innocent.


    Best, you wouldn't know a fraud if it leapt up in front of your nose. You keep proving it over and over again. You're getting boring with that line.

    I came into this late I admit, but my view of LF v HF is all based around IQ. It's a simplistic view I'll admit, but I believe in it because I constantly find that most HF's (including Aspies) are generally quite clever. The one's that aren't only show that they aren't because they try to speak outside their interests and life experience. I used to do that and I got into heaps of trouble as a result. Equally I constantly find LF's that try to operate like HF's and fail badly - and gives us all a bad name in the process.

    It doesn't mean that the two are completely different. It's all Spectrum Disorder - just at different levels of intelligence. And even IQ level isn't the be all and end all of the specifics of a diagnosis - because it also depends on life experience and how an ASD person reacts and handles their own ASD identity. Way too many variables result from that, and can create angellic LF's and devilish HF's (and everything in between).

    Hope that wasn't too far off topic, Joseph! :)

    ReplyDelete
  110. Phil (Timelord),
    You are not qualified to comment on intelligence.
    My low functioning son is much more intelligent than you, as are most institutionalized autistics who have been labelled with mental retardation by incompetent doctors. Since you are the world's #1 wrestling fan, and all intelligent people know that wrestling fans are morons, that makes you the dumbest moron in the world. You continually fall for nonsense that I use to bait you so you can show off your stupidity. Enrolling you at JRC may help you eliminate your need to proclaim your low IQ for all to see in public but it will not give you added intelligeence. I think you should be quiet and pay attention to people like Droopy so you might learn something.

    ReplyDelete
  111. original post said..."None of these different ways to separate low from high functioning - none - are consistent with one another."
    was discussing this a few days ago with Ed. Seems to me the definition is changed based on who the person defining functioning wants to exclude.
    state service evaluators use it (in terms of skills) to deny services...
    Foresam uses it (in terms of speech/opinion and his definition of autism) to exclude anyone who doesnt think chelation is a good idea. Timelord uses it (as an IQ difference)to distance himself from low functioning.
    PhilCommander uses it to... I have no idea, but when does the ebay auction start? i need something to keep the stray dogs out of my garbage.

    ReplyDelete
  112. i think if Droopy disagreed with you publicly ForeSam you'd claim she was a fake and attack her too.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Amanda,
    Droopy has disagreed with me publicly and that's OK. She's not some bonehead like Timelord who thinks I should not help my son. I don't think she's a fraud or I would say so. I think you're just jealous because Droopy is much cuter than you.

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  114. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Here's a link to my new video...(cue sigh from Amanda and the girls)
    Check it out...i would love it if some of you guys could do vid repsonses or just text comments.
    Hey Jen...let me know if you think I look sexy in this video...if you say yes i will give you the jacket i was wearing ;)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUaDZvZSh4Y

    ReplyDelete
  116. be still my beating heart...a new phil commander vid.
    think I'll skip it...thanks anyway!

    ReplyDelete
  117. Thats a shame. I would of liked to have heard your viewpoint.
    Take care.
    Phil

    ReplyDelete
  118. Best, you are so narrow minded you can't see that I am more intelligent than you give me credit for. And you're biased because I've exposed you as a bad father.

    And I never said you shouldn't help your son full stop. I said you are hindering your son. Yes, you can help him - but it has to be done the right way. Right now you are getting it completely wrong.

    Amanda - I'm only distancing myself from the LFA's who make us look bad, not all LFA's. I'm fine with the ones who do the right thing through guidance. Droopy's a perfect example of the one's who do the wrong thing.

    (And for the record - if anyone calls me a hypocrite just because some quack has DXed Amanda with LFA, I say to them that Amanda is HFA with physical issues brought on by damage done during her mid to late teens)

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  119. Phil Gluyas,
    "Best, you are so narrow minded you can't see that I am more intelligent than you give me credit for."
    I give you credit for as much intelligence as below average rocks.

    If I listened to you, my kid might turn out to be a complete idiot just like you.

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  120. Timelord,
    you said:
    "(And for the record - if anyone calls me a hypocrite just because some quack has DXed Amanda with LFA, I say to them that Amanda is HFA with physical issues brought on by damage done during her mid to late teens)"
    i dont know the story really with droopy vs. Amanda so i wont comment on that but,
    wouldnt you say what you stated is a perfect example of the whole hf/lf thing being really a matter of the person motivations/personal opinion of low and high?

    ReplyDelete
  121. Leaving aside whether Timelord's views are good or bad, right or wrong, Amanda (not the Amanda commenting here :) actually is someone who illustrates the point of the post. If you were to use the official IQ criteria, I'm sure Amanda would be classified high functioning. However, she's seldom thought of as high functioning and I doubt she would describe herself that way.

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  122. Joe,
    Would you really call someone high functioning who thinks she's an elf?

    ReplyDelete
  123. First, I apologise to the Amanda here - I thought it was Amanda Baggs. OOPS!!

    If I listened to you, my kid might turn out to be a complete idiot just like you.

    No, he'll turn into something you can't handle. Someone who knows the truth. That scares nine shades of cow manure out of you doesn't it? But you've made that impossible anyway because of your seven years of neglect so it's a moot point. Oh - and when Amanda thought she was an elf, that was the schizophrenia drugs talking and not her. Past tense, moron!

    wouldnt you say what you stated is a perfect example of the whole hf/lf thing being really a matter of the person motivations/personal opinion of low and high?

    It would be more accurate to say it's a reflection on the root issue, not the whole issue by itself (hope you get my meaning there). A person's motivations and personal opinions do go back to IQ level because that level dictates to a degree that person's ability to process information. Now some NT idiots claim that even HFA and Aspergers have issues with that (hence the stupid label constantly coming up) when the reality is we can process the information, just as long as we are given the time to do so. Our results when we are given the time are invariably better than NT's. That's what makes them scared of us. They are so used to quick answers anything slower is deemed dumb by default.

    Hope I've made my position clear on that.

    If you were to use the official IQ criteria, I'm sure Amanda would be classified high functioning. However, she's seldom thought of as high functioning and I doubt she would describe herself that way.

    If one includes her physical issues, then technically she is LFA. But I've always said that because they are purely physical - and are seperate to her Autism and not a part of it - then they shouldn't be taken into account. In other words, Joe, you're absolutely right with that first sentence. And that's the way it should be diagnosed IMO.

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  124. Timelord -
    no problem, I'm used to it. :-)
    i do understand what you are saying...
    but what i'm saying is that since the definition of HF/LF does seem to relative (based on different things, at different times, for different reasons) the use of them is rather meaningless.
    I also dont think IQ tests ARE a good measure of overall functioning.I have an extremely high IQ score but can barely cook, can't drive, or hold down a job- so what good is it? (very much enjoy being a stay at home/homeschooling mom...just saying)but again- its just my opinion...

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  125. Amanda, you're judging your condition on the negatives. Look at what you CAN do. Heck I'm not much of a cook either, nor do I drive, or work. But I do other things that require "smarts" (for want of a better word). Heck, if you're homeschooling that counts for plenty!

    (Oh, and I made the choice not to drive for environmental reasons and because there are too many idiots on the road that you can't predict)

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  126. Timelord
    I dont drive because i cant do it...i'd BE the idiot on the road you couldnt predict. Point is a person's score on a standardized IQ test doesnt really relate to a person's everyday "functioning" anymore than a person's
    skills level (say how long it takes them to boil a pot of water) relates to their intelligence. Not to mention , recent personal experience has taught me that standardized tests can be extremely- WRONG. So...
    if functioning is truly in the eye of the beholder, and is most often used like laurentius rex said- just depending on the person's meaning of it - should we bother to distinguish at all? it just serves to divide. AND people make wrong decisions and do foolish things regardless of what functioning "label" they have , or if they dont have one at all...

    ReplyDelete
  127. Phil Gluyas,
    I think the reason you don't drive is you're not smart enough to pass the test.

    ReplyDelete
  128. Best - don't think. Your brain will explode. Oh hang on maybe that's a good idea!

    Amanda, I happen to agree that there are some IQ tests around that frankly should be thrown in the rubbish bin. Standard ones aren't wrong - they just don't tell the full story (which I guess could be interpreted as wrong anyway). The one that gave me my 131 reading certainly wasn't standard, and it wasn't a single test either.

    Driving is an instinctive thing, and requires very quick reflexes. I think reflexes aren't an ASD person's strong point although like a lot of things there are exceptions. It's to do with driving speed. Well, that's my view anyway. I don't know if that reflects on what stops you from being able to do it.

    But functioning in a practical sense doesn't always link to functioning as per IQ test results. That's why some IQ tests are up the creek. It's also why I don't like the DX Amanda Baggs currently has (LFA). She's as smart as a whip. But just because she has physical functioning issues she gets the L label when it should be H.

    I guess that's where the interpretation issue is if anywhere. I know that IQ is important to my local health department. They have a pre-requisite for assistance, and that is an intellectual disability. LFA qualifies. HFA, Aspergers and PDD-NOS don't. Because of the IQ score.

    And I call that discrimination, because all of those conditions are on the Autistic Spectrum.

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  129. Phil G,
    Did your mother take the IQ test for you? I don't think you could score higher than 80 without lots of help.
    Amanda is pretending to be LFA not HFA. HFA's can toilet themselves and boil water, and drive cars. They are also too smart to watch wrestling. So, that means you must be LFA yourself, Phil.

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  130. Don't comment on things you know nothing about, Best. I won't even bother to address that rubbish because it comes from the mind of a lame brain who doesn't know how to think - or doesn't want to because he's too stubborn to take in correct information as it amounts to admitting he was wrong.

    And you aren't capable of that are you, Best?

    ReplyDelete
  131. Actually, it's gwynfryn, but once again my password won't work (and I made no mistakes this time!)

    Hmm, my first thought on HF versus LF is the assumption that "autism" is about ability! The personality type with which Aaron Rosanoff used the "autistic" label (Theory of Personality, 1921; if you can access it it's findable on google scholar) is all about a different way of thinking and interacting (and so is VERY relevant to some aspects of clinical "autism", but not all the issues now so mislabelled; maybe you guys should give more thought to just exactly what you understand by the term?) and, when combined with a reasonable level of intelligence, has historically very useful. In fact, study the personality type as Rosanoff described it, and it becomes clear that all the greatest inventions and breakthroughs in science came from autistic minds (just as Asperger opined)! How strange that we find no such personalities among autism "experts"!

    How much has this to do with the debate? Not a lot as researchers now use the word. There is a clear correlation between the p type and the UK description of AS (but less so with the DSM SNAFU) but, rather than being a "mild" form of autism, it would be better described as the sub set of autistics who are least able to adapt to the society they find themselves in. It's nothing to do with IQ; there are few with more smarts than Bill Gates, but it's his polymath ability which comes from his autism, not his tendency to rock, or speak loudly (which more probably arises from hybrid incompatibility; most diagnosed aspies who reported their C&M results were AE combinations, whereas straight As like myself are rare on aspie sites, and invariably self-diagnosed).

    A different neurology? Absolutely, it's inescapable, as just about every aspect of autistic thinking is separate from that of the common herd is and effectively the polar opposite of that other minority who end up in charge of everything (to everyone else's cost!). Most "issues" are due to the fact we just aren't motivated as most people are, and we just happen to be a very small (and unrecognised) minority, in a population where most others really don't merit the title "rational animal".

    Of Neanderthal decent? It's certainly a possibility; much of the p type characteristics point to a long period of evolution in glacial conditions, i.e. a people who moved to Europe and Asia long before the OoAs.

    Could the p type be more sensitive to certain malign vectors? Again, it's certainly possible; as we're inclined to be contemplative, spending lots of quality time in our own minds (but definitely NOT in contemplating the self; leave that to the NPD types, who also get diagnosed as AS, by clinicians who can't distinguish the various forms of introversion, nor appreciate the advantages of being able to shut out the world, so as to be better able to ponder deep and complex issues. Again, most of today's "science" is done by people who regard contemplation as a social defect!) then it would perhaps take less damage to push us over the edge?

    Could mercury be a factor? Perhaps, but only to cause defects! Mercury cannot possibly be the cause of the p type, as it wasn't even available back when evident autistics like Archimedes were doing their stuff.

    Could mercury cause defects in non-autistics, giving them "autism" like attributes? No way of telling at present, as clinicians refuse to distinguish between differences and real disorders; no statistical analysis based on such loose definitions as clinicians use, can ever give any useful results. This is probably deliberate.

    How about those IQ tests? Using verbal techniques to rate kids who may have difficulty with language, is clearly absurd, and quite incomprehensible, as several alternatives exist (and are routinely used by industrial psychologists; again, it's baffling why autism researchers are so seemingly ignorant on such issues! Are they hired specifically because they are clueless?). The C&M test I took in 1981 measured 4 kinds of intelligence, in which I got top 1% scores in all but one, visual perception. This is likely due to the fact I don't like guessing, and so got fewer right answers than I would just skipping those I wasn't sure about. I also got a 154 rating from a MENSA postal test. Autism = retarded? Not a chance; it only seems so because autistics like me don't appear in the data, another sign of deliberate skewing of results.

    Can low IQs give rise to an appearance of autism? Bound to, if research is done by people who regard deep thinking as an aberration. Had mankind always given today's overemphasis on "social skills" we'd still be living in caves; no useful discovery ever came from the touchy feely Extreme Female Brained types who now control the establishment (and manipulate society for the exclusive advantage of their own kind, as they've done from time immemorial).

    Example: One "expert" presented on this years Awares mention "autistics don't seem able to recognise the emotional states of others" (or similar) which is unscientific on several levels, and a good general indictment of the kind of idiots who are employed in this monstrous industry. First, she (natch! women really can't do science; they aren't autistic enough!) assumes we want to recognise emotional states (why would we? What purpose does it serve?). If we did, how would we? It's been known for decades that most autistics are unaware of non-verbal communication (an oxymoron, and, at best, a primitive hangover which normals share with lower animals) so, short of telepathy, how could we do this mind reading trick that most women (but few men) preoccupy themselves with. Examine this whole theory of mind thing, at it can be seen as just another club to beat autistics with; i's a female issue which few men are aware of (and fewer still care about) and the distribution across the population follows the usual bell curve, where you get the bulk of humanity in the centre, and opposites in decreasing numbers at each end. Just as EFBs will occupy one extreme end, then so will Extreme Male Brains (i.e., autistics, according to the same guy who invented the TOM nonsense) occupy the other, as any competent scientist would expect in what is properly referred to as the "normal" distribution curve. Having these silly EFBs (who dominate autism research) claiming we are defective because we don't share their motivations is a blatant case of pots calling kettles black; statistically, they are every bit as abnormal as we are.

    So there you go guys, an illustration of how essential it is to have a clear idea of what you mean by "autistic". Start, as I do, with the understanding that Kanner and Asperger only meant it as a descriptive label for a subset of childhood development disorders, and it all starts to make sense; they were not referring to "autism" itself, a perversion which was introduced later, either by idiots who don't understand how labelling works (if you discovered that some rats are labelled "Norwegian", would you assume that to mean all Norwegians are rats??????) or else by people who already knew full well what autism originally meant, but have their own motives for trying to "justify" the eugenic removal (without letting on to the public their real purpose) of a minority they just plain don't like (check the history of science, and you'll find conflict with "authority" an ubiquitous theme).

    Sure, Hitler and his kind exposed the problem with eugenics; those who presume to decide the "fitness" of others, are never inclined to notice their own faults (check out the current rulers who keep calling for "growth" though it's long since anyone, but the already rich, benefited; so nothing will be done about pollution, global warming and overpopulation {France Germany Russia and the UK have all recently launched campaigns to encourage fertility!!!} until it's too late, and all because a power crazed minority can't/won't discipline their lust for more) but just because Hitler is dead, it doesn't follow no one thinks like that any more! It does mean they have to be sneakier about how they go about it, and the activities of most autism "experts" today bears a suspicious resemblance to the propaganda campaigns Hitler's goons used to turn the German people against the Jews. Suspend disbelief while you get your heads around that, and you'll find a plausible explanation for the apparent incompetence of autism researchers, the woolly nature of the DSM, the conflicting attributes of those claiming to be aspies on so many sites, and even the existence and purpose of the J Bests/Robin B Clarks of this world.

    It can be stopped, but only if interested parties will commit themselves to practical, historically valid labels, and workable definitions, and to pressuring the establishment to do the same. To allow these "experts" to carry on working on the basis that "we don't know what autism is, really, but if a kid with no definite clinical issues, acts or responds in a way we don't expect in a "normal" child, then we'll apply autism as a blanket label" is suicidally stupid, not just for autistics, but for anyone who cares about the continuing existence of humanity as a technical species.

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  132. Regardless of the defenition... High or low functioning autistic children need developmental help.

    Click on my name to learn more.

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