Wednesday, March 11, 2009

This is not a Parody of Dan Olmsted. This is Actually Him.

From Age of Autism:
Olmsted on Autism: Man Kills Ten, Self. Why?
Aluminum poisoning
By Dan Olmsted

It's way too early to conclude anything about the reason behind yesterday's rampage in Alabama, in which a man killed his mother, 9 others and himself. But it is not too early to point out a couple of facts.

First, the place he chose to end his life was the parking lot of a former employer, Reliable Products in Geneva, Ala.

Second, according to Reliable's Web site, "Reliable Products is the leader in louver manufacturing for the thru-the wall a/c and heating industry." All these products -- grilles, louvers, vents -- appear to be made of aluminum. Reliable is, in essence, an aluminum products manufacturing facility.

Aluminum, as we know, is toxic ...

What's the standard response in these situations? Oh yeah...

For background, see this post.


  1. What a complete idiot!
    Incidentally, there was also a school massacre in the south of Germany today, where a teenager shot 17 people. (I was in a bit of a shock, because it was in the small town next to the one where my sister lives)
    Now I wonder what explanation he's got for that tragedy.

  2. Oxygen, that is the common factor between all shootists and serial killers, all warmongers, all atheists, all fundementalists too.

    They all breathe the stuff. And if that weren't bad enough there is the dihydrogen monoxide that they have all been drinking.

  3. I tried to post on AoA earlier today, but of course, they rejected it.

    I said:
    "You seem to be misreading what President Obama meant when he said:

    "It's about letting scientists like those who are here today do their jobs, free from manipulation or coercion, and listening to what they tell us, even when it's inconvenient - especially when it's inconvenient."

    What he meant was that he's NOT going to be manipulated and coerced by the lot of YOU!"

    They probably didn't see the humor. ;-)

  4. Off topic - Joseph if you feel it's appropriate can you tell Mitchell (because I've been banned from the scared little man's blog) that the decision he relies on is no longer relevant because the IDEA as I understand it bears no resemblance to the previous Act that the 1982 decision was made under. He needs to be told.

    And he also needs to know that his post opposes high standard education for everyone regardless of medical condition.

  5. I believe Jon reads this blog. He'll see the comment.

  6. Still trying to post on AoA. The first paragraph here was written by Dr. Poling.

    "Fortunately, the ‘better diagnosis’ myth has been soundly debunked. In the 2009 issue of Epidemiology, two authors analyzed 1990 through 2006 California Department of Developmental Services and U.S. Census data documenting an astronomical 700 to 800 percent rise in the disorder."

    I responded:
    It hasn't been debunked, there was never any bunk in it. Classic Kanner autistics only make up 25 to 30 percent of the autistic population. The rest of us have Asperger's, PDD-NOS, or other Dx's on the spectrum. It was only in 1994 that Asperger's was added to DSM-IV, so there's your 750% increase right there.

    (Gonna delete this one too, Kim? That would prove to me you're intellectually bankrupt.)

    (I guess it's Kim Stagliano who's reading and censoring comments.)

  7. Thanks Joseph.

    Clay I might be wrong but as Olmsted is the editor I think it's him that does that. But you could be right. Good response!

    And I should say to Joseph that that's a great OP. As usual. :)

  8. @Clay: Do'C addressed that statement by Dr. Poling along with two others.

    The conclusions of the paper Dr. Poling refers to were tempered, as Do'C notes. The media and the authors did intend to create a different impression, though.

    The paper was surprisingly poor. I wrote a series of critiques. My summary is at the end of this post.

  9. Well, I tried to respond, but my response was censored. Meanwhile, I was ganged up on a couple of times, the last time by Kimcunt herself!

    I wrote:

    @Teresa, who said:

    "None of them have the anger and sarcasm that I see in posts like yours."

    Anger and sarcasm, where?

    "The way you present here, attacking and mean,"

    If you're referring to the note at the bottom, I'll admit I was a little peeved at having a post censored out of existence yesterday. If you people won't debate, it's because you know you'll lose. I believe that censorship is kinda un-American, y'know?

    "shows that some who claim to be autistic may actually have a different DSM disorder, like Narcissistic Personality Disorder, which is not,as you put it,"other Dx's on the spectrum"."

    Diagnosis over the internet is an old ploy. If we're smart enough to speak for ourselves, defend ourselves, then we must not be autistic, right?

    Wrong. I was Dxd as Asperger's nearly 10 years ago. And I just retired after working for 45 years.

    Um, if the prevalence of autism really is going up, wouldn't that mean that the "thimerosal conection" is a lot of hooey? Handley et al used to say that the rate would be coming down. That expected time has passed.

    Posted by: Clay | March 13, 2009 at 06:29 PM

  10. Joseph,
    I just tried to read those links you gave, of D'oC and your summary, duh,
    WAAAAAAY too technical for me to follow! I did pick out that aspies are about 67% of the ASD population, so I'll try to remember that part. (I was close, though).

  11. Yes, it's probably about 40% for so-called "autistic disorder" and 60% for Asperger's and PDD-NOS. Asperger's is actually a rare diagnosis in children. Adults get that diagnosis regardless of speech delay it seems.

    It varies a lot from one study to another.

    The low-functioning/high-functioning split is not the same thing, mind you. There, it's probably about 30% LFA and 70% HFA.

    In California DDS, which is what H-P et al. looked at, they won't see a lot of kids with Asperger's and PDD-NOS, because there are eligibility restrictions. They make some specific claims about autistic children who don't have "autistic disorder" strictly speaking, but they are questionable claims.

    It should also be noted that what is called "autistic disorder" now is not the same thing that was called autism in, say, the 1960s.

  12. Clay, if you were on AoA again - your comments are gone. From what I could tell.

    Joseph - just to venture an opinion based on what I've seen on the late DXing of Aspergers. This usually happens to mild cases that don't come forth until the social skills issues become a problem. For mild Aspies this won't come until the teen years. I know that problems with my peers didn't start until then, and I know I'm not the only one.

    So the 1994 DSM-IV change is only just now starting to catch that one - I assume.

  13. I think that many of the adults who get diagnosed with Asperger's had speech delay as children. Speech delay probably wasn't as big a deal in the past as it is now.

    So the more accurate diagnosis would be autistic disorder, not Asperger's, just from that.

    Now, there are some researchers who say that all autistic children, including those labeled with Asperger's, have communication impairments. So according to DSM-IV, they should all be diagnosed with autistic disorder, and diagnosing them with Asperger's is basically a mistake.

  14. Timelord said:

    "Clay, if you were on AoA again - your comments are gone. From what I could tell.

    The two comments I made under the Jon Poling thread are still there, but I've been blocked from posting since then. I did notice that one of the comments Kim made, she modified, mostly deleting it, and replacing it with this:

    "Forget it, I don't have the heart to be that snarky."

    Her original comment really was snarky too. Oh, and some people would be interested in the comment that John Stone made, about "hecklers" and people who don't want to engage in "true debate". This, after his behavior on LB/RB!

    I say they're intellectually AND morally bankrupt.

  15. It is hard to say what diagnosis I would have got as a child. Practically nobody was diagnosed back then because it takes time for new diagnoses to seep into the system, for the regular pediatricians to assimalate.

    Anyway I reckon the dx would have depended much upon the age I was when dx'd, and since I was in my 40's AS was the only result available.

    I know people who were classic Kanner autistics in childhood who nowadays come under the Aspergers umbrella. Dx is not a fixed or immutable thing.

    I think Tony Atwood has been wisest on this, I saw him present about trajectories, that is to say the severity in childhood really does not determine the outcome, some people progress, others do not, and no-one really knows why.

    I don't doubt that if Asperger and Kanner had swapped places back in the 40's that they would have diagnosed each others patients just the same.

    It is true that speech delay was not such an issue fifty or more years ago, the reason being that parents did not have access to the internet or any of the knowlege they have now to measure there childs development against a norm.

    It was my late reading that concerned my mother more than anything else.

    Verbal ability is not a constant, I still have times when I lose the ability, as people who are close to me know.

    Interestingly enough difficulty with speech is something a lot of dyslexics complain about too, dyslexia is still an easier dx to come by than anything on the autistic spectrum probably because it does not require an MD to confirm.

    BTW how many people are being diagnosed these days as Anankastic, one day it may be the new black :)

  16. It's like I was telling Kent (Christschool) elsewhere. In the 60s and 70s even if a child met criteria for classic Kanner autism, it's not necessarily the case that they got recognized as autistic. In fact, it should be easy to show that most didn't. In Lotter (1967) they managed to locate 4.5 in 10,000 classic Kanner autistics. But it's not like all of them were already diagnosed. It's quite possible close to none were.

  17. As you are very well aware, the prevalence of children being diagnosed with an Autism Spectrum Disorder is increasing at an alarming rate. We would appreciate your assistance in helping us try to identify if the use of epidural analgesia/anesthesia and Pitocin during childbirth have any association with the development of autism.

    If you are willing to participate in a survey questionnaire, please email Elaine DeLack, RN at and the questionnaire will be emailed to you for your completion.

    Thank you in advance for your participation in this research.

  18. @Elaine: Are you aware you just posted that same comment at LB/RB? I could delete it as spam. Instead I will point out that recruiting from blogs will result in selection bias. If you were researching something about vaccines, that's certainly the case. But you're still researching something having to do with Big Pharma. Inevitably, you'll find autism parents who are more likely than controls to remember the childbirth drugs you're studying.

  19. Actually, the mere fact that you're mentioning the drugs you're studying creates selection bias. The study is invalid a priori.

  20. I agree with Joseph.

    The anti-vaxxor lobby appear to be disproportionately white, middle class and with higher than avergae earning potential.

    They may also be disproportionately likely to have received epidurals and other 'extra little helpers' due to the medico-social factors that appear to be prevelant with their lot.

    You will get a skewed sample with a huge, huge desire to produce a (unwittingly) biased sample.

  21. Also, suppose a parent who had those epidurals happens to drop by and sees that comment. Would they be likely to want to enroll? More likely than a parent who didn't have those epidurals? Seems obvious that would be the case.

  22. Indeed Joseph, and vaccine skeptic parents may be very prone to 'remembering' epidurals they never actually had, just as some 'remember' thier child being 'normal' before vaccines even when there's video evidence that they weren't.

  23. I think that many of the adults who get diagnosed with Asperger's had speech delay as children. Speech delay probably wasn't as big a deal in the past as it is now.

    So the more accurate diagnosis would be autistic disorder, not Asperger's, just from that.

    Now, there are some researchers who say that all autistic children, including those labeled with Asperger's, have communication impairments. So according to DSM-IV, they should all be diagnosed with autistic disorder, and diagnosing them with Asperger's is basically a mistake.

    I would have to ask my parents, but I didn't have speech delay if I recall correctly. My parents suspected I was Autistic when I was a toddler because of my withdrawn nature. Again, that's from memory. That's why I think my personal DX is right.

    You could be right in general, but I think we also need to take into account that many DX's may be coming from GP's and not specialists (psych's). Indeed, a speech delay definitely counts out Aspergers. My DXing psych may well have known that (again I can't remember).

    One thing won't change though. The DX on the Spectrum. So that jump that occurred with the DSM-IV in the first instance, and has been ongoing as the system adjusted to the change would not drop.

    I wonder if there will be any change to better reflect the difference you are talking about in the DSM-V?

    (I'm tempted to send Elaine a fire and brimstone email but I won't bother. What a witch!)

  24. I wonder if there will be any change to better reflect the difference you are talking about in the DSM-V?

    I think they either need to remove Asperger's, or come up with a categorization that means something. Right now, when they compare autistics with either diagnosis, matched by IQ, they don't find any differences of note.

  25. No I don't agree with that. The Aspergers DX has to stay. Speech delay would be HFA and not Aspergers (depending on other factors of course). So the categories as they stand are okay. It's the defining of said categories that's the issue. Using IQ at that level is a misnomer in the diagnostic process because as you say - HFA and Aspergers in the area of IQ would be the same. But they have that key difference - speech delay. Amongst others of course. I'd rather not see Autistic Disorder DX's - except in special circumstances (ie Amanda Baggs).

  26. But is speech delay meaningful in adolescence or adulthood?

    This is the sort of thing I'm talking about.

    I personally don't like the divisions in the spectrum, but if I were someone who is a decision-maker in relation to changes to the DSM-V, what I would suggest (based on available research) is simply having LFA and HFA categorizations based on non-verbal IQ. If IQ is untestable, the category could be LFA.

    This is already how a lot of research looks at the spectrum.

    Of course, the category would not be fixed. A person could move from LFA to HFA and vice versa.

    I'd probably also suggest there should be different criteria for children vs. adolescents/adults.

  27. I think it is meaningful, Joseph. I only read the abstract at the link you provided (I am steaming at the moment with Diane Dipstick Davis over at Autism Web) but from that it looks like the testing was limited strictly to direct effect. What I mean by that is speech delay v no speech delay and the effects on language only.

    I don't think that tells the whole story.

    Look at it like this. HFA's generally want to be quiet. Aspies prefer to talk. Okay - that's a stereotypical view because there are exceptions on both sides (especially amongst Aspies) but for the Aspie side that I don't think has anything to do with language as such. It's to do with external factors. Education for example. It lets Aspies down because of the lack of speech delay. That I think is what allows for the apparent catch up by adulthood of the HFA's.

    But it doesn't always work like that. If there's early intervention for the Aspie, they can be close to "normal" (Gee did I just say that?) around puberty. What happens after that could be just about anything. Now with HFA the early intervention is more obvious so catch up occurs.

    Now maybe with that last remark you could be right. Maybe there does need to be a difference in classification between the kids and us adults - just to take that crucial teen period into account. The abstract didn't indicate that the factor was taken into account.

    I don't think there's any doubt about non testable IQ's being LFA. There are many more IQ tests today that offer specialised testing. I think that was done to get MR DX's out of the system as much as possible (I could be wrong - that's just a logical guess based on the long term psychological damage an MR DX can do socially, much longer than anything on the Spectrum even back to Kanner's day).

    And I definitely have no doubt that an LFA can improve to HFA. That ties in with the sensory overload theory that I hold to at present. Regression and recovery. There's a condition in the NT world that holds the same sort of fear and has a similar cause.


  28. HFA's generally want to be quiet. Aspies prefer to talk.

    Is that actually true? In my experience, not necessarily.

  29. You must have missed the next sentence after that quote, Joseph.

  30. First neurodiversity claims autistic people over neurotoxicity, then stroke patients, and now it's claiming homocidal maniacs who've gone on shooting rampages?

  31. WTF are you talking about, Jake?

  32. What am I talking about? Hasn't the ND movement been trying to claim autism as a cause of diversity and therefore something to be proud of? So then what kind of a message does this send out about NDs when you write this article bashing a reporter for raising the plausible idea of an environmental trigger that may of may not have contributed to this tragedy?

    Of course, I'm not saying you or anyone else in the ND camp condones this behavior. If this guy really was driven to the edge simply by working with aluminum, then that would make the possibility that infants are becoming autistic and being given neurodevelopmental disorders by being injected with Al in their vaccines seem all the more plausible.

  33. A plausible idea? Stop defending complete nonsense, Jake.

    Alien mind control is a more plausible idea.