Comments on Natural Variation - Autism Blog: Dr. Adams: Is there a paper in the horizon?

Yep, I heard. It took a while, and it was spinned ...

2009-11-12T13:19:38.489-08:00

Yep, I heard. It took a while, and it was spinned just as I thought. Basically, no significant between-group differences in outcome, but still it's sold as showing that DMSA helped both groups.

If anyone is wondering "how did this get past peer review with this spin?" check out who the peer reviewers were in the prepublication history: Richard Deth and Ray Palmer.

How in the heck did that happen?

Now published: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6...

2009-11-12T13:13:36.964-08:00

Now published:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6904/9/16
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6904/9/17

If they followed through with what the consent for...

2007-10-31T09:10:00.000-07:00

If they followed through with what the consent form states, it would seem this is a trial of not only chelation but chelation in combination with glutathione cream. That would seem to be a marginally relevant thing to mention.

On this consent for they talk about transdermal DM...

2007-10-31T09:01:00.000-07:00

On this consent for they talk about transdermal DMSA and Glutathione lotion.
http://www.scnm.edu/forms/AutismConsentform.pdf

Of course here they have glutathione in quotes:
http://www.autism.com/danwebcast/presentations/alexandria/Saturday/Adams.pdf

Oh, see also this. Parents believe they are able t...

2007-10-31T06:46:00.000-07:00

Oh, see also this. Parents believe they are able to breach the double-blinding of the study because they know the symptoms of chelation. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's interesting.

NM - I don't think they were giving glutathione, b...

2007-10-31T06:41:00.000-07:00

NM - I don't think they were giving glutathione, but some autistic kids are given that. See this.

Swartz - From what I heard from Dr. Adams, the pap...

2007-10-31T06:36:00.000-07:00

Swartz - From what I heard from Dr. Adams, the paper is not finished or submitted.

Joseph,It could be that the peer review is also de...

2007-10-30T21:29:00.000-07:00

Joseph,

It could be that the peer review is also delaying things. I've read that the review process itself can be arduous in some circumstances.

Perhaps there are problems with the methodology itself?

Why do I remember that they were giving glutathion...

2007-10-30T17:21:00.000-07:00

Why do I remember that they were giving glutathione along with DMSA?

Dr. Adams also makes a claim that children with lo...

2007-10-30T10:06:00.000-07:00

Dr. Adams also makes a claim that children with low glutathione made the most improvement, whereas 2 children with high glutathione got worse.

Check out slide 53, Jennifer. Does that trend line look like it can be derived from the dots in the graph?

Ok, I'm reading the new presentation. It does have...

2007-10-30T09:15:00.000-07:00

Ok, I'm reading the new presentation. It does have a lot more information. It starts out with data about heavy metal excretion and metabolid changes. I don't think the metabolic changes are that interesting - obviously DMSA will produce these.

In "severity of autism" scale, both groups have a -18% improvement.

In "ATEC results" there appears to be some improvements in favor of the 7 round group, but not statistically significant.

In "Parent global impressions" it's not clear which is which; there's a bar graph. There don't appear to be significant differences between the groups.

A second slide with a bar graph on global impressions appears to show the same data I discussed in this post.

In the ADOS scale, 7 rounds seem to be slightly better, but not statistically significant. Communication was better with 1 round. (Those numbers seem different than in the previous presentation, though.)

Summary: I don't think ARI is honestly representing the results of the trial as far as "improvements in behavior".

I do think Dr. Adams is trying to sell the idea that both groups improved because both got the initial round of DMSA. Group differences are what count though. If you make an uncontrolled claim about both groups and piggyback it as part of the results of a "double-blind placebo-controlled trial", that would simply be wrong. I'm sure Dr. Adams realizes this, and either way, peer reviewers should notice it.

Dr. Adams attached his presentation in his email. ...

2007-10-30T07:25:00.000-07:00

Dr. Adams attached his presentation in his email. It's in PPT format. I thought it was the same 2007 presentation available on the web. I'll have to take a look. Maybe the data changed?

I'll email it to you.

Joseph,Perhaps you could reply to Dr. Adams and as...

2007-10-30T03:44:00.000-07:00

Joseph,
Perhaps you could reply to Dr. Adams and ask him to e-mail you a copy of his DAN! presentation?

Jim Adams seems to have given a presentation at th...

2007-10-29T19:50:00.000-07:00

Jim Adams seems to have given a presentation at the fall DAN! meeting. As stated in the ARI newsletter:

"Jim Adams, Ph.D. shared the results of the DMSA - Autism Treatment Study he conducted at Arizona State University. He reported DMSA was found to clearly increase the excretion of some metals and resulted in some improvements in behavior. Watch for Dr. Adams' presentation on the ARI website in November."

Dr. Adams replied. He says they should finish the ...

2007-10-29T09:24:00.000-07:00

Dr. Adams replied. He says they should finish the paper within a month or two. Then they will submit it and hope it will be published within a year.

I just emailed Jim Adams at his ASU address. I'll ...

2007-10-28T07:21:00.000-07:00

I just emailed Jim Adams at his ASU address. I'll post here if I get an answer.

I've emailed researchers before and I always get an answer. I think the only time my email was ignored was when I asked SafeMinds to source their "Generation Zero" document.

Another study that kind of got buried was the repl...

2007-10-27T22:29:00.000-07:00

Another study that kind of got buried was the replication of the Rain Mouse study by Hornig et al. A researcher at UCD replicated it and apparently presented the results at a conference, but that's all. The title of the presentation or poster didn't say anything specific about the outcome.

I once sent an email to this guy and he didn't respond. I guess I could try again.

I'm guessing it didn't show anything that could be twisted into saying that autoimmune sensitive mice can be made into autistic mice with injections of thimerosal.... and what ever happened to Hornig's, memorial Liz Birt "Go for the Gold" mouse study? She was supposed to be given money to do the study in memory of Birt....

And how come the results of the garbage MIND b12 study were never published, just made into an ugly and nonsensical poster presentation. I think they stopped recruiting for "phase 2" but don't want to admit it.

Hi Joseph,I'm inclined to agree with MJ on this on...

2007-10-27T18:41:00.000-07:00

Hi Joseph,

I'm inclined to agree with MJ on this one. Although Jim Adams never returned the last couple of e-mails I sent him last year, prior to that, he did exchange e-mails with me extensively. Although his communications seemed chock-full of fallacious logic, poor references, and unsupported assertions, he was extremely polite and willing to discuss the study in great detail.

As for the study itself, my bet would be that it ends up published in a journal like this one:

Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Part A
Editor-in-Chief: Sam Kacew

More on that here.

Just a suggestion, if you want to know the status ...

2007-10-27T18:08:00.000-07:00

Just a suggestion, if you want to know the status of the study, why don't you ask the researchers performing the study?

I assume that the study is this one

Matt Baral, ND

DMSA Treatment of Children with Autism and Heavy Metal Toxicity, Matt Baral, ND and Jim Adams, PhD 2005-7

I would assume that Mr. Baral's contact information is on the site somewhere.

I guess Dr. Adams went to the Sallie Bernard Colle...

2007-10-27T16:44:00.000-07:00

I guess Dr. Adams went to the Sallie Bernard College of Science, where they teach that you only need to stand behind results that agree with your preconceptions.

Or maybe the study is so full of crap that not even "Medical Hypotheses" or the "Journal of American Physicians & Surgeons" will publish it. No, on second thought I'm pretty sure there's nothing too loony for that latter one to print.

Hi Bink. If the results had been exceedingly posit...

2007-10-27T14:40:00.000-07:00

Hi Bink. If the results had been exceedingly positive, I have no doubt Dr. Adams would've been yelling about them from the rooftops, to be honest.

Thank you for keeping up on this. I have been wond...

2007-10-27T14:34:00.000-07:00

Thank you for keeping up on this. I have been wondering and wondering when these promised results will be publicized. I have sent emails to Dateline which have been ignored. If I were a parent who had been persuaded to try chelation (I am not but I have friends who have done it) I would be even more eager to find out the results. What is going on here? If this is all on the up and up, what is the big hold up?